Why did perfecto move from being a brand label to defining a jacket style

[Harris HTM]

According to the Tanaka book about Schott, they started cooperating with Jack Beck in the early 40's, entering the world of mc jackets. The oldest cross-zip Perfecto labeled jacket I could find in the photo's in the book is dated late 30's and is named "Horsehide aviation jacket, model 2262", it features a d-pocket as well.
The oldest real perfecto-style perfecto-labeled jacket featured in this book (belt, coin pocket, epaulettesm etc) says "mid-late 50's".

 

[Peacoat]

Personally i have never seen a jacket with a Schott label that has all the Perfecto features (three pockets, coin pocket, front belt, epaulettes) as well as the long sleeve zippers on the front panel of the sleeve.

If they did make the wild one jacket why are there no other example of that jacket anywhere?
It's the most famous leather jacket in the world yet we can't find one, it doesn't make any sens!
IMO if they had made it we would see some in the wild, just like we see Durable jackets with the correct features.

What clinched it for me (that it was a Durable) was those long sleeve zippers. The other features are important as well, but those zippers were the icing on the cake.

 

[Claybertrand]

Absolutely agreed but the thing is, Schott already had their own classic coin pocket & belt cross zip before purchasing Durable, which, if I am not mistaken, was closer looking to the one they're making today. Provided they even bought out Durable!

On second though, this may be complete bs as well and there's actually no proof there's any connection between Schott and Durable. If anything, Gail says...

"I can confirm though for you that Schott did not purchase another company, our complete history of our company from 1913 is in our book and there is no mention of this company being bought by Schott. If you or anyone else can provide more information on this jacket please add to this post as I would like to know it's history too."

I don't even know why I keep repeating that Schott bought Durable! I just heard it online and had accepted it as a fact and it may not be true at all. If anything, if Gail says there's no record of it ever happening, there's like zero doubt that the Japanese guy is the one making stuff up.

I wonder if you might be conflating the DURABLE brand with the DURO-JAC "branding" and therefore believing that Schott had some proprietary interest in the latter. Schott DOES make uniform jackets under the DURO-JAC label. I have really only seen Police jackets in this labeling. I can't speak to potential marketing fibs and truth bending per se. I do agree that the name Perfecto seems to have become somewhat synonymous with the cross zip style. I attribute this as much to the public as to Schott although Schott may encourage this common usage with their marketing.

Not everyone goes to the Schott Forum pages or reads their literature. I think some people just see Perfecto and attribute the style to that name. I see "Perfecto" or "Perfecto Style" used in many ebay listings for cross zips. As Seb Lucas mentions, sometimes brand or trade names names just stick as the generic term for something a la Kleenex, Xerox, Zip Loc. Again, I'm just speaking to the common use of the term Perfecto to describle a CROSS ZIP.

Bartender Edit: Decorum, gentlemen, please. There are places online for these images; TFL is not one of them.

 

[Monitor]

I wonder if you might be conflating the DURABLE brand with the DURO-JAC "branding" and therefore believing that Schott had some proprietary interest in the latter. Schott DOES make uniform jackets under the DURO-JAC label. I have really only seen Police jackets in this labeling. I can't speak to potential marketing fibs and truth bending per se. I do agree that the name Perfecto seems to have become somewhat synonymous with the cross zip style. I attribute this as much to the public as to Schott although Schott may encourage this common usage with their marketing.

Not everyone goes to the Schott Forum pages or reads their literature. I think some people just see Perfecto and attribute the style to that name. I see "Perfecto" or "Perfecto Style" used in many ebay listings for cross zips. As Seb Lucas mentions, sometimes brand or trade names names just stick as the generic term for something a la Kleenex, Xerox, Zip Loc. Again, I'm just speaking to the common use of the term Perfecto to describle a CROSS ZIP.

Bartender Edit: Decorum, gentlemen, please. There are places online for these images; TFL is not one of them.

Ah, shame about the images but I know that seller, she's got a sweet police jacket, too. And I even like the hat!

 

[Claybertrand]

my bad...................

I figured if it was an eBay listing---it was Family Friendly........ Sorry boys

 

[Edward]

How and why did Scott’s perfecto jacket label move from being a jacket brand to defining the common motorcycle jacket style with exposed asymmetrical front zipper, snap-down lapels, and classic three-pocket with flap coin pocket design shoulder epaulets bi-swing back panel belted front with a square belt buckle. The first perfecto jacket had a belted front, D-pocket, flap coin pocket, zippered sleeve cuffs, and shoulder epaulets.
I believe it was the move Wild One that defined the style often referred to as a perfecto jacket.

With everything, there's a brand that sticks in people's heads. We don't use a search engine on the internet - we Google things. Most people don't vacuum, but 'Hoover'. At one time, almost any personal cassette player was referred to as a 'Walkman' - these days, many people call any mp3 player an 'ipod'. All clear tape in the UK is "Sellotape" - in the US, it's "Scotch Tape". Sometimes a brand name just becomes so widely used, it becomes a generic. Which can be a nightmare for the brand owner, as once your TM becomes generic, TM dilution can beckon.

Also, I have read on the internet that Scott’s perfecto was the first motorcycle jacket. Anyone had ideas on how Scott is credited with the first motorcycle jacket. Were they the first to come up with the cross zip front?

Definitely not. Schott's marketing department have a somewhat creative approach to history.

The Schott way is "If you repeat something often enough it becomes truth"...
They stole the jacket in the wild one, they tried to do the same thing to the jacket James Dean wore, they like to take credit for things that where not always from them.

If they invented the first Motorcycle jacket in 1928, what do they think the Lewis Universal Racer Mk1 was for?
Pretty sure it was a motrocycle jacket, and it came out in 1926... Why is LL not credited for inventing the MC jacket then?

https://www.lewisleathers.com/productinfo.html?code=UVR1-jak

Schott remind me in that regard of a former principal of my university who used to like to claim we were the oldest university in London, on the spurious basis that our university had merged with a medical college which went back centuries. Date of the merger? 1994.... Not that he could ever keep a straight face when he said it...

LL has a very honest approach which is what I love about them, even though they might've just as well knocked off other makers back in the days for most of their major designs, such as Rivetts or Mascot or Highwayman, etc. They are a great company that strictly 100% believes in their product which has always been top notch.

Highwayman was Rivett's of London. Big rivalry between them and Lewis back in the day. In that sense, they 'ripped' each other off for designs - HWM had the striaght zip, shirt collar style out by 58/59 - Lewis introduced the Corsair and Dominator in 62. HWM also did aversion of the Lightning which Lewis produced in 58 (them and everybody else in the British mc jacket scene!).

Mascot, though cheaper, had some really nice designs that were completely their own. The Black Night (no 'k') was a very cool cross-zip style that can't be mistaken for anything else. Almost a shame that it was low end - the design deserved better in terms of manufacture.

Lewis did give a nod to Schott with the name of their first "American style" bike jacket in 1956 - the Bronx. Though for my money, what really raised the game and transformed it somewhat was the 1958 arrival of the Lewis Lightning, with the half belt replaced by side-buckles.

Absolutely agreed but the thing is, Schott already had their own classic coin pocket & belt cross zip before purchasing Durable, which, if I am not mistaken, was closer looking to the one they're making today. Provided they even bought out Durable!

On second though, this may be complete bs as well and there's actually no proof there's any connection between Schott and Durable. If anything, Gail says...

"I can confirm though for you that Schott did not purchase another company, our complete history of our company from 1913 is in our book and there is no mention of this company being bought by Schott. If you or anyone else can provide more information on this jacket please add to this post as I would like to know it's history too."

I don't even know why I keep repeating that Schott bought Durable! I just heard it online and had accepted it as a fact and it may not be true at all. If anything, if Gail says there's no record of it ever happening, there's like zero doubt that the Japanese guy is the one making stuff up.

Interesting.... so the Wild One link is utter fabrication!

It's kind of funny to me because it is The Wild One which gives the jacket its particular allure. Not merely jacket by itself. Had it been an actual Schott the reaction would have been the same.

Quite so.

Personally i have never seen a jacket with a Schott label that has all the Perfecto features (three pockets, coin pocket, front belt, epaulettes) as well as the long sleeve zippers on the front panel of the sleeve.

If they did make the wild one jacket why are there no other example of that jacket anywhere?
It's the most famous leather jacket in the world yet we can't find one, it doesn't make any sens!
IMO if they had made it we would see some in the wild, just like we see Durable jackets with the correct features.

Agreed. And yeah, it's those long zips on the sleeves and their placement which really mark out the Durable as distinct. Funny, of all the P-style jackets I ever owned, the one thing that varied most was the sleeve zip - length and placement (seam, top, bottom...).

 

[Monitor]

@dannyk is right, though. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter who made the jacket. It could've been Schott, coudla been GuideMaster Wolf. Happens to be Durable (probably). But three things remain:

1. Schott, alongside many other companies, Durable included, was making their Perfecto at the time the film was made, which was very much the same, sans the top sleeve zippers.

2. Schott survived and kept what has always been among the best diagonal zipper jackets on the market, alive & in its most true and proper form. And it's still the best jacket in this style out there!

3. Schott Perfecto is possibly the most copied leather jacket style ever. Regardless of how much better some copies are, if at all, this is something that many makers deliberately forget to admit, going as far as to completely fabricate the history of the jacket just to make it seem like it's okay to copy a jacket by a company that's long gone and not okay to give credit where credit is due.

I wonder if you might be conflating the DURABLE brand with the DURO-JAC "branding" and therefore believing that Schott had some proprietary interest in the latter. Schott DOES make uniform jackets under the DURO-JAC label. I have really only seen Police jackets in this labeling.

Good theory on the Dur-O-Jac! Could've been that someone drew the same parallel. But that was some good business on Schott part as well, coming up with an affordable line of their most classic style. My first Schott jacket was Dur-O-Jac and it was pretty nice.

 

[Dredgen Yor]

Well spoken and enlightening.

The Schott way is "If you repeat something often enough it becomes truth"...
They stole the jacket in the wild one, they tried to do the same thing to the jacket James Dean wore, they like to take credit for things that where not always from them.

If they invented the first Motorcycle jacket in 1928, what do they think the Lewis Universal Racer Mk1 was for?
Pretty sure it was a motrocycle jacket, and it came out in 1926... Why is LL not credited for inventing the MC jacket then?

https://www.lewisleathers.com/productinfo.html?code=UVR1-jak