White RAF Roll Neck Sweaters

[Harp]

Me too. My interest in these sweaters is linked to my interest in the Armed Services and my interest in history.

I remember the end of Leonid Brezhnev. I think he was succeeded by Yuri Andropov, who only lasted a short time. I also remember following with interest the Falkland Islands conflict, being pretty much equally interested in both the Royal Navy and British Army.

I once attended a NATO briefing as a graduate student after the Falklands. A very impressive Royal Air Force Group Captain led the Alliance team
which also comprised a German naval commander; an Italian naval commander; and an American commander and naval aviator.
A thorough briefing on Warsaw Pact naval capabilitiy followed a somewhat shallow review of the Falklands-shallow because the audience
mostly comprised civilians, college kids without prior service and the junket was something of a NATO public relations ploy aimed at the campus crowd.
I was somewhat surprised that the American pilot had a rather parochial aircraft carrier perspective; seeming oblivious of the exocet missile capability
and how technology had radicalized naval surface warfare. If either of the two British carriers had been struck and sunk, a 1.5 billion pound carrier downed
by a $30k exocet, a revolutionary episode comparable to the Merrimack-Monitor duel of the American Civil War would have resulted, when all wooden
hull navies were rendered technically obsolete. A good brief nevertheless. I remember the RAF officer deftly shifting discussion away from the
Falklands campaign to annual defense expenditure-the Royal Marines got short shrift, and I know a Gurkha outfit had led a beach assault,
but nothing said about them either. Wearing an olive green commando sweater around today, weather is suppose to dip to 40* but overall quite mild.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Not horrid at all - I'm loving it. Have also been wearing my sub sweater and Navy Guernsey, but am in my Navy roll neck Woolly Pully today!

I don't mind it when it is cold, crisp and clear, but I don't like all the disruption it causes.

 

[Ticklishchap]

I don't mind it when it is cold, crisp and clear, but I don't like all the disruption it causes.

I really like the cold, crisp and clear weather, and I like the snow as well, but agree with you about the inconvenience caused by snow storms. We are ridiculously ill-equipped for this in Britain and it makes us look ridiculous compared to mainland Europe and North America.

 

[Ticklishchap]

I’m enjoying wearing my Army Woolly Pully over a Rugger shirt. It’s keeping me nicely warm today.

 

[Ticklishchap]

We’re wandering off the subject of sweaters. I’ve been wearing commando sweaters for the past few weeks - I think a Navy Guernsey is called for tomorrow.

Agreed, though an interesting diversion. I've also worn a commando sweater for the last few days but tomorrow will switch to an Irish fisherman knit.
It was raining this morning when I left my flat with a temperature drop so I grabbed my camel Gloverall duffle.[/QUOTE]
I also find it an interesting diversion. Please PM me and I’d love to continue it. For me this morning I wore my Barbour quilted jacket when out in the snow. The Olive commando sweater over the Rugby shirt kept me comfortably warm. I’ve worn commando sweaters pretty much every day this season apart from occasionally a Guernsey or the Silverman’s sub sweater.

 

[Paulgo253]

I've been wearing my subs a lot for daily wear during this cold snap, esepcially the J PIck one which feels really lambswooly and sung. Just been reading through the recent posts and @Grandfather's Hat you seem to be as obssessed as me - some great info in your posts! I've just obtained an early-mid 80's J Pick sub and was quite surprised at how different it is to ny 70's Pick jersey. It's seems a lot closer to the Kemptons modern versions in overall feel, harder feel to the wool and the neck is not as wide as the 70s one I own. Waiting for a 60's J&S sub to arrive which will mean I have examples from the 50;s, 60's, 70's, 80's ear;y 2000's and this decade. Think I might have to stop now!!

Here's me own in the blizzardys with my 1938 Irvin and '55 sub combo - certianly does the job!!

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Outdoor Knitwear in Leicester, UK, seems to be having a sales blitz at the moment as they recently sent an email all about their Nautical range of sweaters, including Submariners Rollnecks etc.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I've been wearing my subs a lot for daily wear during this cold snap, esepcially the J PIck one which feels really lambswooly and sung. Just been reading through the recent posts and @Grandfather's Hat you seem to be as obssessed as me - some great info in your posts! I've just obtained an early-mid 80's J Pick sub and was quite surprised at how different it is to ny 70's Pick jersey. It's seems a lot closer to the Kemptons modern versions in overall feel, harder feel to the wool and the neck is not as wide as the 70s one I own. Waiting for a 60's J&S sub to arrive which will mean I have examples from the 50;s, 60's, 70's, 80's ear;y 2000's and this decade. Think I might have to stop now!!

Here's me own in the blizzardys with my 1938 Irvin and '55 sub combo - certianly does the job!!

Did you get some of your 1950s and 1960s Submariner/RAF Off White Roll Necks from Ebay or similar?

 

[rolando_ol]

Outdoor Knitwear in Leicester, UK, seems to be having a sales blitz at the moment as they recently sent an email all about their Nautical range of sweaters, including Submariners Rollnecks etc.

These ones are the super long ones that almost go over the hips, right?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

These ones are the super long ones that almost go over the hips, right?

I Suppose it would depend on how tall you are, I am nearly 6ft tall and yes, I would say the one I have from them and a couple of others that I bought elsewhere do cover my hips. I think the older vintage ones that you can sometimes find in vintage shops and websites may be a bit longer. I really enjoy wearing mine.

 

[mariner]

Read this thread today..Very interesting. I've had many submarine jerseys - recently sold 2 J&S 1965 versions that were a bit too tight and an unlabelled one. I've kept my '70s Pick & Sons Size 2 which is actually a Size 3. Modern versions, including the odd shaped neck and lightweight wool Outdoor Knitwear version (sometimes labelled Wooly Pully too..) are not a patch on the vintage versions. I find it unbelievable they sell for so much new, they're just rubbish quality and the shape is all wrong. Whilst £206 is a lot of money for a submarine jumper, it was in amazing condition for a working sweater and is a vintage original. My advice to anyone looking for a decent sub jersey is to wait until one comes on an auction site..they seem to come up more often now than 15 years ago when I started collecting.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Read this thread today..Very interesting. I've had many submarine jerseys - recently sold 2 J&S 1965 versions that were a bit too tight and an unlabelled one. I've kept my '70s Pick & Sons Size 2 which is actually a Size 3. Modern versions, including the odd shaped neck and lightweight wool Outdoor Knitwear version (sometimes labelled Wooly Pully too..) are not a patch on the vintage versions. I find it unbelievable they sell for so much new, they're just rubbish quality and the shape is all wrong. Whilst £206 is a lot of money for a submarine jumper, it was in amazing condition for a working sweater and is a vintage original. My advice to anyone looking for a decent sub jersey is to wait until one comes on an auction site..they seem to come up more often now than 15 years ago when I started collecting.

I have a Pick submariner roll neck jersey, it is still in very condition.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

There was a Pick & Sons Sub Mariner Roll Neck Jersey on a well known auction site yesterday for about
GBP £ 69.00. Says it is size 2 in very good condition, made in 1985.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I've been wearing my subs a lot for daily wear during this cold snap, esepcially the J PIck one which feels really lambswooly and sung. Just been reading through the recent posts and @Grandfather's Hat you seem to be as obssessed as me - some great info in your posts! I've just obtained an early-mid 80's J Pick sub and was quite surprised at how different it is to ny 70's Pick jersey. It's seems a lot closer to the Kemptons modern versions in overall feel, harder feel to the wool and the neck is not as wide as the 70s one I own. Waiting for a 60's J&S sub to arrive which will mean I have examples from the 50;s, 60's, 70's, 80's ear;y 2000's and this decade. Think I might have to stop now!!

Here's me own in the blizzardys with my 1938 Irvin and '55 sub combo - certianly does the job!!

I wearing a couple of my subs over the weekend, nice to be able to get them out again.

 

[Grandfather's Hat]

Read this thread today..Very interesting. I've had many submarine jerseys - recently sold 2 J&S 1965 versions that were a bit too tight and an unlabelled one. I've kept my '70s Pick & Sons Size 2 which is actually a Size 3. Modern versions, including the odd shaped neck and lightweight wool Outdoor Knitwear version (sometimes labelled Wooly Pully too..) are not a patch on the vintage versions. I find it unbelievable they sell for so much new, they're just rubbish quality and the shape is all wrong. Whilst £206 is a lot of money for a submarine jumper, it was in amazing condition for a working sweater and is a vintage original. My advice to anyone looking for a decent sub jersey is to wait until one comes on an auction site..they seem to come up more often now than 15 years ago when I started collecting.

Hello,
for sub sweater enthusiasts, ebay has two cool specimens from the time of the Second World War.
Issued under the slogan:
Military WW2 Royal Navy Roll Neck Sweaters Jumpers Uniform Naval Arctic (5216)
By the way, to Mariner:
I saw the auctions of your submarine jersey. In one - some time ago it was already and I would not want to distort - I was wondering about authenticity. The NSN number was on the label. In the case of a sweater from 1965, it seemed strange to me, because as a NATO standard, NSN was introduced 10 years later.
Which does not mean that in individual cases, it was not experimented. And I'm not such an expert of uniformed labels of MoD and RN.
It does not change the fact that these sweaters are great.
Regards to everyone

 

[mariner]

Hello,
for sub sweater enthusiasts, ebay has two cool specimens from the time of the Second World War.
Issued under the slogan:
Military WW2 Royal Navy Roll Neck Sweaters Jumpers Uniform Naval Arctic (5216)
By the way, to Mariner:
I saw the auctions of your submarine jersey. In one - some time ago it was already and I would not want to distort - I was wondering about authenticity. The NSN number was on the label. In the case of a sweater from 1965, it seemed strange to me, because as a NATO standard, NSN was introduced 10 years later.
Which does not mean that in individual cases, it was not experimented. And I'm not such an expert of uniformed labels of MoD and RN.
It does not change the fact that these sweaters are great.
Regards to everyone

Am not an expert, but here's the label of the 1965 version and one that had a much shorter 4.5in collar (H.K Ltd). There's no mention of NSN on either, even if the numbers are and the boat neck navy smocks often meantion just 'Nato Stock' (see the Turner and Jarvis label) I've had at least 11 through the years; the first I bought in 1990 from Silvermans and it was a new old stock Pick version. They only had size 3, which surprises me as I've never seen a size 3 since..it was huge and swamped me..6ft 2ins and 42 in chest then..and I gave it to a charity store in the mid-90s.. (no ebay in those days), but I guess submariners are supposed to be small anyway! Interesting link to the HMVF forum and post war labels: http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/31684-using...-date-postwar-british-clothing-and-equipment/

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I have one of those Navy Boat Neck Jerseys and it has VOCAB on the label too. I also have some Sub Mariner Off White roll necks, one by Pick.

I was sent a brochure from Motolegends, who have sold Sub Mariner Roll Necks along with the American sweaters as mentioned above in #997. They are now selling another type of WW11 military based Wool Sweater, the "Warnom" which appear to have been issued to all the UK services. They are Roll Neck and look very good. Go into www.motolegends.com then click on to Accessories , then Fleeces and Sweaters.

 

[Grandfather's Hat]

Am not an expert, but here's the label of the 1965 version and one that had a much shorter 4.5in collar (H.K Ltd). There's no mention of NSN on either, even if the numbers are and the boat neck navy smocks often meantion just 'Nato Stock' (see the Turner and Jarvis label) I've had at least 11 through the years; the first I bought in 1990 from Silvermans and it was a new old stock Pick version. They only had size 3, which surprises me as I've never seen a size 3 since..it was huge and swamped me..6ft 2ins and 42 in chest then..and I gave it to a charity store in the mid-90s.. (no ebay in those days), but I guess submariners are supposed to be small anyway! Interesting link to the HMVF forum and post war labels: http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/31684-using...-date-postwar-british-clothing-and-equipment/


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Thank you very much.
I used to go to hmvf.co.uk and it is a good source of information.
Of these tags (or rather, photos of tags) military sweaters, which I have first with numbers NSN, appear in copies from the early 70s.
Which does not preclude the contracting party or the producer from experimenting with them before. Because I do not have such knowledge. It just drew my attention to the unusual label in your sweater. In addition to the presence of NSN 8405-99-943-1535 everything is on it properly.
From the numbers of contracts given on hmvf you can refine the year of production of the sweater, if it is not on the label (until the 70s the date was not given or they were given very small letters when sewn, from the beginning to 1978 no longer, then until the beginning of the 90s the date was again on the label, now there is no).
For example, the first submariner from the photo in your entry is most likely from 1975, and the seaman's jersey from around 1971/72.

Certainly there will be someone who once will get the title of professor dealing with labels from uniforms MoD, RN, or RAF.

We have only been fully standardized for over a dozen years, when there is internet, central orders, etc ....
Surely it was not 50 years ago.
It certainly was not in the 1930s or during the Second World War.
Applying today's scoop, many of us would like to see all RAF pilots, or all crews of submarines in the same sweaters.
In the meantime, it was not like that.
In the film "We Dive at Dawn" (film from 1943) John Mills, as Lt. Taylor, the commander of "Sea Tiger" wears a sweater with a shawl collar. The crew is also in different sweaters.
In old photos you can see sweaters with short and long collars, and even a clean Guernsey jumper with polo or mock neck.
Sailors wore what they got by law, what they got from the gifts, what they bought or got as a gift from their loved ones.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I Just noticed on the Out Door Knitwear website, in addition to the usual Ecru and Navy Blue Submariner Sweaters/Jerseys, they have introduced a number of other colours. (I think North Sea Clothing also have more colours too.)

 

[Grandfather's Hat]

I do not do advertising. I reserve, because it happens differently.
I sometimes look at ebay, because cool things happen.
In any case, I've spotted something the seller calls "RAF Aircrew Frock WW2".
And it really looks like a frock. It's long enough, there's something that looks like a mock neck ....
The link is here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RAF-Airc...e:g:wNcAAOSwAvNcYJUs:rk:1:pf:1&frcectupt=true
In any case, I inform all fans of RAF sweaters and similar roll neck's.