surely
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right on, man
Originally posted by Moustache
I can certainly say it has been an interesting ride on this topic.
surely said:What does that latin quote mean deanglen? I get something like silence and moral strength go together like a . . .
deanglen said:"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
--From Hamlet (I, v, 166-167)
Doran said:Not that I am arguing that you are using it in the following way, but the only problem with that line is when it gets overextended to say something like "we cannot know, we may as well admit we will always be ignorant and stop trying to know." That is anti-humanist and the things that I have always respected about religion are the humanist elements, such as the belief that each person is noble and possesses dignity and carries a spark of the "divine" (an idea which of course existed in Stoicism centuries before Christianity began). A benevolent god should be assumed to give Reason to humans in order that they may try to understand the physical principles of the world to improve their lives, among other things.
a little bit of how they believe...without debate or fear of resentment
Foofoogal said:I have always thought of churches like restaurants.
HoosierDaddy said:The truth..divinely guided and inspired..to be written down as a base for the truth...but,then put in the hands of "free willers" to complicate...so we could always be reminded to keep our eyes where we know the truth always is....and who is really holy.......
Bokononism
Samsa said:This, of course, raises another question (this one rhetorical): wasn't there Truth, and a Church, before there was a list (canon) of scripture? After all, the Bible that Protestants use wasn't really codified until Martin Luther.
HoosierDaddy said:Absolutely. What was eventually written down were the writings resulting from those beginnings and incorporated later. Here's where the controversary can come in. Some say that that first church changed..or fell away from original teachings. Also..some claim historically a few things happened to the bible scriptures along the way for political and other reasons. Some Protestant churches claim to,have then,went back and translated original scripture from the Greek...and reclaimed true teachings of the first church and holy scripture. The first scriptures incorporated into a bible were claimed to be divinely inspired. Maybe the question should be...does this mean that all since then are? My answer would be no. There can be major differences. I favor the Bible of Greek translation that doesn't seem to be added to...or complicated with emphasis on doctrines or earning my way. In my fathers house is many mansions. That's what I may earn...but the simple message of how to get there should be the first concern,IMO. If God,indeed,inspired a true scripture for all...it would seem that he wouldn't allow for it to become lost. I base my criteria on the reasons listed above....along with others.
Keep in mind..I offer my conclusions as a layman...blue collar believer. Certainly not a theologian...or church history scholar. I am waiting for a pastor to speak up......
*******deanglen said:Hamlet apparently meant that Horatio's view of reality needed to be enhanced. I was curious what type of responses would be forthcoming. Very enlightening.
dean
Mine, but that's not relevant to this discussion.Foofoogal said:Now which earthly father wouldn't feel the same thing and want or even demand one honor their son.