Which religious group?

[Samsa]

It's "non serviam" not "non servum."

"I shall not serve"(or, since the related noun servus means slave, "I shall not be a slave").

However, that's quite interesting but implies a being who can think things into existence immediately. No beings like that are known to exist through normal means of investigating the natural world. I guess if that works for you, that is fine, but I lack that special element, that "faith" thing. Like Diet Coke, "never had it. Never will." (Actually, I did have it until about 14.)

That's funny, as I was rereading my post I thought "I sure hope I got the Latin right." I forgot that you were a Latin teacher. Perhaps I should dust off my copy of Wheelock...

As a matter of fact, it doesn't work for me (I can't tell if people realize that I am an agnostic now), but at the time it was explained to me I thought "hey, that kinda makes sense."

As per beings like that not being readily observable in the natural world, that's all too true. I suppose the apologist would point you towards Natural Theology and Aquinas' five proofs. But I'm not an apologist. At least not any more.

 

[surely]

I thought I knew what I thought before I reviewed this thread.
Now I think I know what I think. Confused? Me too?....

 

[HadleyH]

Well, with all respect...

For me politics AND religion are two topics that I put on the same boat.

 

[Foofoogal]

I personally am very interested in what different people believe and why. I may be naive but I think bebop was being serious.
This is what I was leaning toward about the lady on her wedding night or not.
God or Jesus (which is my choice) I can easily not expect anyone to understand especially in the culture we live in . If they have not been instructed or exposed to this they would see this figure as just another figure like say Mickey Mouse or Donald or something. I used to think about this alot.
How would they understand? Especially a thought about a miracle. Now this would be a huge jump for sure.
(Currently on a laptop and cannot stand it.)
I sometimes wonder why I am a Christian and not another religion. If I would of been born in say India wouldn't I have a lot less chance of this?
I know what I know. I used to be Baptist and my whole family was.
When the Jim Jones thing (I am not kidding) happened I sat in my church I had been going to forever and right then and there asked alot of questions. I asked or prayed to my Jesus a request. I asked, Lord, I don't know about all this but I want to know you and who you are. Not what my family or this church has told me all my life. I believe He took me on a journey since then and has become my best friend.
I am fascinated by the ideas Doran put forth on the survival of species.
I would like to suggest along those lines that a belief in something bigger than you would cause you to not Bgo overboard in self destruction as in drinking and such (just as an example) Sheer statistical really I would think.

Fear of the Lord is the Beginning of Wisdom.
Kind of self explanatory.

I also read in my Bible that He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. This is a huge one to me.

 

[HadleyH]

For me politics AND religion are two topics that I put on the same boat.

so what do you think?

 

[Foofoogal]

How can one be omnipotent if one cannot change one's mind...

I am not quite understanding this.
There was a man in the Old Testament who was going to die and asked God for 3 more years I believe and God changed His mind on this.

 

[Rooster]

so what do you think?

Yes, discussion of either tends to make some very angry.

 

[HadleyH]

???????????

 

[dr greg]

no point worrying about it

If we knew what happened after we died, religion, in its many quaint and superstitious forms, would not exist, because there would be no mystery to excite the fevered imaginations of those who fear death. Therefore who cares, because no-one KNOWS!!.. best to wait until you're dead and FIND OUT THEN, as to this life, there are plenty of satisfactory humanist social structures to keep society running...as an aside, a recent survey in this country found that the most religiously tolerant people are those who. like myself, have no belief in interventionist sky-dwellers due to a complete lack of empirical evidence, while those who profess to be very religious are the opposite...that says a lot I think.

 

[HadleyH]

Yes, discussion of either tends to make some very angry.

I agree Rooster, but then... why only discuss religion and leave politics out? [huh] That's not really fair, is it? You know... like a hidden agenda sort of thing

I'm not understanding this ...

 

[Gilbey]

best to wait until you're dead and FIND OUT THEN

It might be too late then.

 

[surely]

so what do you think?

so what do you mean?[huh] If putting them in the same boat like never talk about them because arguments ensue, then I would disagree. These things need to be talked about and differences brought out in the open.
If you mean they are in the same boat because unresolvable, then I would agree. I choose discourse over fighting, BUT if I have to I will defend myself aggressively.
by the by, what kind of boat?

 

[HadleyH]

so what do you mean?[huh] These things need to be talked about and differences brought out in the open.

I DO agree with you surely!

But then why talk about religion ONLY and not politics?

That's all I'd love to know. Why?

 

[Foofoogal]

plenty of satisfactory humanist social structures to keep society running

[huh]

Now I am at a loss. You mean like bowling or something. I don't know what you mean by this. Can you expand please?

 

[Sin Khan]

Yee of Little Faith.

This post is in answer to Doran’s fathers doubts about God’s benevolence.

Why does God allow…

Have you ever heard the idea that the more faith that you have then the more that you will be tested? Have you not heard that “Gold is tested in the furnace”? How many Christians were put to death in history? Did not Christ die on the cross? Was he not wrongfully put to death by those who made false acquisitions against him?

“My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?” Did not Christ himself ask this question before he died? And yet, after asking this question he stated, “It is finished.”

God is a merciful and loving God. But many, many people have their faith shaken by harmful matters that occur to them. Sometimes it is storm that takes away a loved one, and those left behind suffer loss and lose faith. What did they do to deserve such treatment? Why God? Why? What they lose sight of is the truth that death is not the end. Death is only the beginning.

If we are faced with opportunity of immortality in the presence of the creator of the universe then what is death but a quickening of our possibility to be in the presence of God? We all die; all of us, but it is how we live that matters. Does not God take all things into consideration before making judgment upon who will enter the kingdom of heaven and who will not? If you lived a short life filled with suffering, would that not matter to God in your favor over a life of ease and simple pleasures in deciding your immortality?

The apostles learned to not only accept suffering, but to relish it, knowing that suffering meant that the were worthy of being tested. So few of us take that attitude today. Instead, we see our trials as punishments, not opportunities to serve God.

 

[Rooster]

I agree Rooster, but then... why only discuss religion and leave politics out? [huh] That's not really fair, is it? You know... like a hidden agenda sort of thing

I'm not understanding this ...

I'm fine discussing both. I find I tend loose my respect for those who disagree with my views on politics, but I don't get mad about it. I don't get mad about difference is religion, and I respect everyone's right to worship how they see fit or not. Alot of folks can't discuss either subject with out going ballistic.:rage: lol

 

[Samsa]

But then why talk about religion ONLY and not politics?

That's all I'd love to know. Why?

It's my understanding that politics was banned because the discussions became so unpleasant as to make the Lounge a not so nice place to be. I remember the height of the squabbles, and I seriously considered leaving, things got that out of hand.

I have not seen that happen with religious discussions so far. This thread, for example, has remained very civil - which is why I suspect the bartenders have left it open for so long.

That said, I'm sure they're watching this thread very closely, and that it will be closed down if people start poking fingers and acting uncouth. Hopefully that won't happen, though.

 

[HadleyH]

It's my understanding that politics was banned because the discussions became so unpleasant as to make the Lounge a not so nice place to be. I remember the height of the squabbles, and I seriously considered leaving, things got that out of hand.

I have not seen that happen with religious discussions so far. This thread, for example, has remained very civil - which is why I suspect the bartenders have left it open for so long.

That said, I'm sure they're watching this thread very closely, and that it will be closed down if people start poking fingers and acting uncouth. Hopefully that won't happen, though.

Thanks for replying Samsa!

...but to be fair, religion is a hot topic, as hot or hotter than politics, both are easy combustion so to speak lol



Hmmmm ... don't know

 

[Samsa]

Thanks for replying Samsa!

...but to be fair, religion is a hot topic, as hot or hotter than politics, both are easy combustion so to speak lol



Hmmmm ... don't know

Right, and my point was, religion could very go the way of politics (i.e., be banned as a topic here). But so far we've managed to keep things very civil, and thus the bartenders have not seen fit to close the thread down.

 

[HadleyH]

Right, and my point was, religion could very go the way of politics (i.e., be banned as a topic here).

... but I bet it won't, it won't go the way of politics

Oh boy!! [huh] lol