When does a gentleman fight back?

[docneg]

Now playing: Taylor Dayne - Original Sin (Theme from the Shadow)
via FoxyTunes

Thanks, Diamondback--appropriate music, too.

 

[Diamondback]

Quite--for some of us, the Way of the Warrior is our path to redemption for past sins or dishonor; that if all we accomplish is trading our lives for those of the innocent in the end it's worth it.

Your av was an appropriate reference, too--in many ways the Shadow is the quintessential illustration of the kind of Warrior I refer to, who "knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men" because we have a certain amount of it within ourselves and are trying to use it for a good purpose.

----------------
Now playing: Visual Music, James Hannigan and Andrew Sega - Tau Space Suite
via FoxyTunes

 

[Foofoogal]

quite possibly some higher commission that we are destined to fulfill.

Quite--for some of us, the Way of the Warrior is our path to redemption for past sins or dishonor; that if all we accomplish is trading our lives for those of the innocent in the end it's worth it.

I am beginning to believe this. In the last few years this could describe my fighter brother. I know without a doubt what I believe was God used my brother mightily to protect me on a physical as well as a spiritual sense. At a time that he was most definitely in time of his own redemption for past sins. Not only this but I believe my brother was rewarded mightily with many things restored to him because of it. Deep, deep awesome stuff.
Since God can use a donkey we definitely cannot pin him down in any way.

 

[Lear]

Hahahahahahaha! No, I expect it doesn't. If this is the tone you generally take with people, it should be no surprise that they regularly take offense.

Perhaps you could ask a close friend or relative to be completely honest with you and tell you specifically what you are doing that offends everyone you come in contact with so that you can change it. Friendly clue: it is not the rest of the world; it is you.

I hope you work this out. Life should not be this difficult for you.

You are of course (just like KittyT) quite right.

It's just that in London, at every turn there's now a Chav. It's getting to me. I'm not referring to class, money or education. I'm talking about those who would hurt or make the lives of others intolerable.

I've been to many countries where the desperately poor could teach me a thing or two about civility, manners and culture. I have nothing to feel elitist about, except possibly my cycling proficiency exam that I passed aged twelve. I also spend most of my time dressed like a tramp. However, when I come across these 'types', the blood begins to boil :rage:

On a lighter note - another line that doesn't go down well on the London Underground:

You'll often find a crowded train with one empty seat remaining. There'll be a Chav, with his legs spread wide enough to touch both ends of the carriage. You sit down, yet the Chav still refuses to move his legs. My advice for a quiet life, is to NOT say:

"For a man that I hardly know, your knee is getting rather friendly with mine. The bad news for you, is that it doesn't do it for me. I already have a girlfriend".

Best to deliver this line calmly, in a matter of fact way. As if your reminding him that he's left his umbrella on the seat. The leg is always retracted. Works every time. You still get the bank of headless passengers though, as all newspapers shoot up to shoulder level.

Lear

 

[Lear]

Wow! Godfrey and Docneg, two fascinating stories

Thanks for posting.

Lear

 

[docneg]

If this is the tone you generally take with people, it should be no surprise that they regularly take offense.

I think what has not been said on this subject is this: Righteous indignation in the face of brutish people is natural and warranted, even though it may not be the wisest strategy. So the victim is twice impacted: once from the aggressive behavior and once from having to bottle up the response that any intelligent and fair-minded person who has done nothing wrong would express. I think that Lear's ongoing conflict is that the deck is stacked against us--no matter what we do, we lose. You get bumped out of your place in line or have your seat taken, OR you stand up for your rights and become involved in a physical confrontation you shouldn't have to endure. Somebody who doesn't bother other people shouldn't have to go through these things, no matter how smart-ass his responses may or may not be.

I guarantee that if Lear looked (or acted like) like a Hell's Angels biker, that crumb's foot would move off the empty seat on the tram immediately. The scum of the world single out for abuse those people who don't look like they are dangerous. So my question to our friend Lear is: Do you still act? Rehearse a character of violent background, immerse yourself in the role, dress appropriately for the part, and get on the train again with eyes glaring and seeking out that next challenge. I'll bet the leg will move away from the empty seat. Bullies succeed by intimidation, not by having to actually prove their stuff.

Then, later change your clothes and change back into yourself. It's an interesting experiment. And, after all, acting doesn't require you to change your values or who you are.[/SIZE]

 

[JEEP]

I guarantee that if Lear looked (or acted like) like a Hell's Angels biker, that crumb's foot would move off the empty seat on the tram immediately. The scum of the world single out for abuse those people who don't look like they are dangerous. So my question to our friend Lear is: Do you still act? Rehearse a character of violent background, immerse yourself in the role, dress appropriately for the part, and get on the train again with eyes glaring and seeking out that next challenge. I'll bet the leg will move away from the empty seat. Bullies succeed by intimidation, not by having to actually prove their stuff.[/SIZE]

With all due respect; that sounds like a really dangerous piece of advice. I am quite sure that most of these guys will be able to call that bluff, thus being even more provoked by you than ever - or they may not call you bluff, but now they may feel that have to prove that they are tougher than you (and weapons may be pulled!). Either way; you are now in a worse situation than before.


Regards.

Jakob

 

[John in Covina]

Two scenario's from film:

Paul Kersey’s (in the movie Death Wish) conversation with wimpy milksop son in law Jack.

Paul: If we had the brains to live in the country...we wouldn't be here for the reason we are today. We'd be going into the city to work...Mom and Carol would be safe at home waiting for us! Nothing to do but cut and run.

Jack: What else?

Paul: What about the old American social custom of self-defense? If the police don't defend us, maybe we ought to do it ourselves.

Jack: We're not pioneers anymore, Dad.

Paul: What are we, Jack?

Jack: What do you mean?

Paul: I mean, if we're not pioneers, what have we become? What do you call people...who, when faced with a condition of fear...do nothing about it? They just run and hide.

Jack: Civilized?

Paul: No.


OR

“I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I expect the same from them.”

The Credo of J.B. Books from "The Shootist" with John Wayne as J.B. Books.

 

[docneg]

With all due respect; that sounds like a really dangerous piece of advice. I am quite sure that most of these guys will be able to call that bluff, thus being even more provoked by you than ever - or they may not call you bluff, but now they may feel that have to prove that they are tougher than you (and weapons may be pulled!). Either way; you are now in a worse situation than before.


Regards.

Jakob

That's a good point, JEEP. I suspect, though, that you have more contact with people who want to fight, rather than intimidate. There are two classes of bullies, just like there are barking dogs and attack dogs. Really dangerous dogs don't make a lot of noise. I really doubt the blustering types that Lear encounters are prepared for physical confrontations. But of course the trick is in knowing which you are facing.

I understand your viewpoint--your situation sounds very difficult. I wish you luck with your store.

 

[docneg]

Two scenario's from film:

Paul Kersey’s (in the movie Death Wish) conversation with wimpy milksop son in law Jack.

Well quoted, John! "Death Wish" was on my mind as I was writing my post.

 

[Woland]

They can sense a civilized individual. They know that 'normal' folk, don't attack or kill others for pointless reasons, dislike fighting, or at least dislike fighting over something trivial and pathetic. This gives them an instant psychological advantage.
Lear

I consider myself a gentleman, and a exquisitely dressed bad-guy as well...
I refrain from giving anyone the upper hand when it comes to potential for physical violence.

It is simply a matter of what signals you deliver through your public conduct.
People are unlikely to pick a fight if they fear that they might get hurt themselves...

I suffered from rather severe aggression issues in my younger days.
By no means a bully, picking fights and such, but rather quick to accepting challenges made through insulting and unacceptable behaviour.
I did not "look" like a fighting man, so many a thug was surprised to find trouble where they did not expect it.
My nose has been broken twice, my jaw once, and I am the not so proud owner of five fractures in my right hand.

In my late 20s I concluded that my temperament was complicating my life in an unnecessary fashion.
The natural solution was to seek professional assistance in order to acquire anger-management.
It helped...

Now;
I have not raised my hand in anger for over 20 years.
I have not been in a fight for over 20 years.
I have not walked away from a potential fight in over 20 years.

Why?
Because I am cool, collected and confident.
Because I do not succumb to visible anger (which makes me into a bomb waiting to go off).
Because I am polite and have acquired substantial social intelligence.
Simply because my public conduct signals that I am not a man to be messed with.

And my visual style helps a bit as well...

 

[Fedord Spaniard]

I think what has not been said on this subject is this: Righteous indignation in the face of brutish people is natural and warranted, even though it may not be the wisest strategy. So the victim is twice impacted: once from the aggressive behavior and once from having to bottle up the response that any intelligent and fair-minded person who has done nothing wrong would express. I think that Lear's ongoing conflict is that the deck is stacked against us--no matter what we do, we lose. You get bumped out of your place in line or have your seat taken, OR you stand up for your rights and become involved in a physical confrontation you shouldn't have to endure. Somebody who doesn't bother other people shouldn't have to go through these things, no matter how smart-ass his responses may or may not be.

I guarantee that if Lear looked (or acted like) like a Hell's Angels biker, that crumb's foot would move off the empty seat on the tram immediately. The scum of the world single out for abuse those people who don't look like they are dangerous. So my question to our friend Lear is: Do you still act? Rehearse a character of violent background, immerse yourself in the role, dress appropriately for the part, and get on the train again with eyes glaring and seeking out that next challenge. I'll bet the leg will move away from the empty seat. Bullies succeed by intimidation, not by having to actually prove their stuff.

Then, later change your clothes and change back into yourself. It's an interesting experiment. And, after all, acting doesn't require you to change your values or who you are.[/SIZE]

Sir, you made a very important point. Someones image can have an effect on the person viewing. Im 6' 180lbs, and when i was in my late teens i had long hair, wore an MC jacket, wore jeans and combat boots, i looked like the typical biker/rocker. While i looked like this many people didnt approch me, they wouldnt even make eye contact with me... i would say to myself "wo, what the heck? i dont mean any harm..im just a normal kid minding my own business". Ive had some people even tell me after they met me, during these years, that when they first saw me they didnt think that i would be nice and didnt want anything to do with me....And that they were surprised to see that i was actually a teddy bear. When i began wearing business attire clothes and i went to the same places, strangers would treat me like royalty... "sir yes sir" "welcome sir". I couldnt believe it.. my personality has always been the same in my "rocker/biker" look and in my "business" look. I learned the power that image has over most people viewing.

 

[Orsini]

I consider myself a gentleman, and a exquisitely dressed bad-guy as well...And my visual style helps a bit as well...

And it makes a nice contrast with the china...

 

[Paul_M]

I have studied martial arts for years, until breaking my ankle in two places at once (and dislocating it at the same time) during a grading. BUT, the main thing I learned from all my classes was never throw the first punch. Let them start it - you finish it !
My ankle has never returned to what it was, and I get constant pain in it. I therefore always carry a walking stick, actually more like a walking cane, which I have found useful for other things apart from walking with !!

 

[Woland]

And it makes a nice contrast with the china...

Indeed!
It is certified shaolin china, my secret weapon...

My ideal when it comes to style & fashion:

May he rest in peace.

 

[Orsini]

Indeed!
It is certified shaolin china, my secret weapon...

My ideal when it comes to style & fashion:

May he rest in peace.

An excellent actor.

This reminds me of what I recall reading that Al Capone once said: "You can get further with a kind word and a gun than just a kind word."

It appears Richard Widmark's Tommy Udo is probably lacking the kind word, however...

 

[Lear]

I think what has not been said on this subject is this: Righteous indignation in the face of brutish people is natural and warranted, even though it may not be the wisest strategy. So the victim is twice impacted: once from the aggressive behavior and once from having to bottle up the response that any intelligent and fair-minded person who has done nothing wrong would express. I think that Lear's ongoing conflict is that the deck is stacked against us--no matter what we do, we lose. You get bumped out of your place in line or have your seat taken, OR you stand up for your rights and become involved in a physical confrontation you shouldn't have to endure. Somebody who doesn't bother other people shouldn't have to go through these things, no matter how smart-ass his responses may or may not be.

I guarantee that if Lear looked (or acted like) like a Hell's Angels biker, that crumb's foot would move off the empty seat on the tram immediately. The scum of the world single out for abuse those people who don't look like they are dangerous. So my question to our friend Lear is: Do you still act? Rehearse a character of violent background, immerse yourself in the role, dress appropriately for the part, and get on the train again with eyes glaring and seeking out that next challenge. I'll bet the leg will move away from the empty seat. Bullies succeed by intimidation, not by having to actually prove their stuff.

Then, later change your clothes and change back into yourself. It's an interesting experiment. And, after all, acting doesn't require you to change your values or who you are.[/SIZE]

Beautifully put Docneg. You certainly have a way with words.

Maybe I've been giving the wrong impression. I hope this doesn't sound like macho posturing: 6,2", size 48" suit jacket, maximum dead-lift (as of today) is 180 KG (396 pounds). I only gym to keep fit, not to look tough. Although a pacifist, I'm constantly cast as soldier, ex-serviceman or psychopath. The irony is, I don't like holding guns, nor do I like firing them.

Immediately after the Parachute Regiment incident, I was cast in (possibly) the bloodiest commercial to have ever hit the screen. It was put together by the 'Skunk Works' division of a large company, who MUST have known that it would get banned. The armourer who provided the weapons, was also the guy who'd previously supplied the Para guys. He knew my thoughts on violence, so was again highly amused.

Apart from the woman who repeatedly thumped me, I've never been touched in my life. Not a hair on my head has ever been ruffled. I've had many fists shaken at me, yet nobody has ever come within arms reach. Line up a thousand men, and I can guarantee you I'll get cast as the meanest out there. This also means that I do pretty well with the evil Shakespearean characters.Bizarrely, I used to be a pretty teenager. So cute, that girls of my own age would pinch my cheeks, as if I was a child. I sometimes ask myself what happened.

Over the years I've had to develop a jokey, relaxed demeanour, that puts people at ease. However, if I'm tired or even stressed, the façade slips and people who don't know me get worried (I won't bother you with the stories).

I remember meeting up with friends at a comedy club in London. I was running late, so agreed to pick the tickets up at the door. As I arrived, the doorman held his arm out with ticket in hand. They'd told him to watch out for a guy, who looks as if he kills people for living. Charming

All of this means that events get magnified. Another man can say, 'Excuse me', and there is no issue. When I voice exactly the same words, it sounds like a command. I can't help it, it just does. I've developed techniques that lessen the insult to others, but it's hard to sustain 24/7.

Clarity of speech is now so rare in the UK, that a clearly enunciated sentence is often taken as insult or provocation.

If all of this sounds self-indulgent, then I apologize. I know it's running a little deep. Maybe I'm bleeding off the pressure

Lear

 

[docneg]

Clarity of speech is now so rare in the UK, that a clearly enunciated sentence is often taken as insult or provocation.

Oh god, ANOTHER place I can't relocate. Not England! Say it ain't so!

 

[Harp]

The production company had hired a bunch of seriously tough (serving) British Parachute Regiment guys. They got these men via an agency who specialized in fight scenes, marching etc. Much easier to have a group of trained soldiers march in-line, than to train a bunch of civilians.

Anyway, word got back to me that many of these guys hated me. I remember wondering why they didn't have more important things to consider. One of them was heard saying, "Who the f..k does he think he is, walking around like that". I hadn't even spoken to any of them, nor had I been anything other than polite. Amazing!


Lear

Lear, a Leg catches abuse around Airborne.
Shrug it off and carry on, mate.

 

[avedwards]

I have had one situation in my life where I came close to threatened. The only other times I have used violence was to people in school but it only got as far as gentle punching to people who deserved it and nobody was hurt.

I'm about 6'1" and 10st. so quite thin for my height. I can pass for an adult, especially in the dark when I wear a suit and have the shade from my fedora over half of my face.

The time I felt threatened was only a few weeks ago. I had been to a classical music concert near my house so I was wearing a suit and my hat. Since the concert took place only twenty minutes walking distance away from my house, none of my friends could offer me a lift and I didn't want to put my mother out I decided to walk home in the dark by myself.

As I was about half way through my journey some youths wearing hoodies who were walking in the opposite direction to me on the other side of the street suddenly crossed the road and started to follow me (it can only have been me as there was no one else on the pavement and they made comments about the guy in the hat). There were about five of them and one of me and while I was a little taller than they were they still outnumbered me and for all I could have know carried knives. I decided to ignore them and not run but walk on, albeit at a brisk pace I usually put on.

In the end nothing happened, as I had to cross at some traffic lights a minute later and they didn't follow me then. I got home normally. I felt a little bit threatened at one point when I was being followed but I decided that the best thing to do was to walk away and not run away as that is both non-violent and not showing fear.

Please do not tell me how dangerous it is to walk around alone at night as I will still do it as I live in a safe area and that is the only thing ever to have happened to me.

I agree with people that self defence or aiding others is OK, and otherwise to turn away, but calmly if you don't want to show fear.