Western, anyone?

[Neophyte]

Thanks for the info and the first-hand experience, FMW!

I'm very interested in Old West hats, but most of what comes up in my searches are movie hats (especially Clint Eastwood's) and city hats, such as the photo mentioned by Hatophile.

 

[gtdean48]

Think Boss of the Plains to start with, curled brim on strong hand side. For me, I'm right handed so that is my roping hand. Left hand holds the reins. My brim would be curled on the right hand side since that is the hand I'd take it on & off with mostly to wipe the sweat off my brow, etc. The rain would channel off the the other side but my left hand would be out in front of me with the reins near the horse's neck...

 

[hatophile]

Thanks for the info and the first-hand experience, FMW!

I'm very interested in Old West hats, but most of what comes up in my searches are movie hats (especially Clint Eastwood's) and city hats, such as the photo mentioned by Hatophile.

You also might want to search some of the reenactor sites, such as SASS (single action shooting society). Some of those guys tend to be real specific about their dress and firearms,
so that could be helpful for authenticity.

 

[Neophyte]

You also might want to search some of the reenactor sites, such as SASS (single action shooting society). Some of those guys tend to be real specific about their dress and firearms,
so that could be helpful for authenticity.

That had never crossed my mind. Thanks!
I'll post any outstanding hats I find here.

 

[Neophyte]

Hey everybody! For those on the up and up when it comes to western hats and western wear, I'd like to ask another question:

Is there a notable difference in the stiffness and durability of a western hat made of different grades of fur? Considering the stiffness of a proper western hat, would it make much of a difference in the long term if one was made of all rabbit or all beaver?

It would seem to me that unless you want a soft western, the quality level of the fur wouldn't factor in that much when choosing a hat. Where dress hats are concerned, beaver fur in general is considered to provide a nicer quality of felt, which is desirable for a dress hat. Do those same preconceptions carry over to the western style?

Sorry for all the questions, guys , but I'm still learning!

 

[monbla256]

Neo,
As an empirical method of answering your question, go to the largest Western Wear shop near you that carries a good range of hats , prferably at least three brands, and spend some time looking and handling as many as you can. Remember, just about ALL western hats are heavily shellaced these days, even the upper end ones made by most makers. If you can, take a look at a Stetson "El Presidente" a 10x all beaver model and you will find a nice smooth even finish witha far stiffer shaping than you would find on an equivelent dress hat.
The other thing is that unless you were to wear just 1 hat ALL the time, in rain, sleet, hail snow and blazing sun as the cowboys did the type of fur might make a difference. But with the type of wear you would put it through I don't think it really matters what type of fur as long as it is a well made, finished and creased hat. get out to a shop and handle some hats

 

[Neophyte]

The other thing is that unless you were to wear just 1 hat ALL the time, in rain, sleet, hail snow and blazing sun as the cowboys did the type of fur might make a difference. But with the type of wear you would put it through I don't think it really matters what type of fur as long as it is a well made, finished and creased hat.

Thanks. Unfortunately, the ONLY western wear store we have here is a Stockdale's. The only hats they have are some plastic "straw" hats by Harley-Davidson lol. I HAVE, however, decided to travel to Buckaroo Hatters early in January, so there's that!

That last part is kinda what I wanted to hear . It's good to have an outside perspective. Thanks!

By the way, how is that refurbished Stetson coming along?

 

[monbla256]

It's having to learn Basque French for now Did you see my latest hat i'm wearing?

 

[Neophyte]

It's having to learn Basque French for now Did you see my latest hat i'm wearing?

Oh yeah, the beret, right? It looked quite smart! I was laughing at all the "philosopher" comments you were getting .

 

[frussell]

Not everyone will agree, but despite the fact that almost all cowboy hats are heavily stiffened, the grade of felt is a factor for comfort and durability. My hats that have a higher level of beaver, including an older one that is 100% beaver, tend to be thinner, easier to break in, more resistant to water damage, and easier to reshape after a crash or a complete soaking. Beaver seems to bounce back better, and last longer. That's just the way I see it though. I'm sure someone will argue that rabbit is just as good. I haven't found it to be true. In fact, the only all-rabbit felt "western" hats I've worn outside much where I live tended to be a great deal hotter, which is a deal-breaker for me in the Southern California desert. Not knocking rabbit felt, I've got many, just don't ride in them much. Good luck. Frank

 

[Neophyte]

Not everyone will agree, but despite the fact that almost all cowboy hats are heavily stiffened, the grade of felt is a factor for comfort and durability. My hats that have a higher level of beaver, including an older one that is 100% beaver, tend to be thinner, easier to break in, more resistant to water damage, and easier to reshape after a crash or a complete soaking. Beaver seems to bounce back better, and last longer. That's just the way I see it though. I'm sure someone will argue that rabbit is just as good. I haven't found it to be true. In fact, the only all-rabbit felt "western" hats I've worn outside much where I live tended to be a great deal hotter, which is a deal-breaker for me in the Southern California desert. Not knocking rabbit felt, I've got many, just don't ride in them much. Good luck. Frank

Thank you for the personal input. This isn't the first I've heard about beaver "bouncing back" better (unless maybe you said something similar in another thread lol).

 

[monbla256]

i think the Beaver vs Rabbit thing is really a very subjective opinion thing. having owned and worn felt hats of BOTH felts for over 40+ years now, it ALL depends on the quality level of each as made by the makers as to their quality and "wearability" .
As for whether one is cooler or hotter, NO felt hat is comfortable in 100+ degree heat whether it's in Southern California or West Texas. That's why Ecuador makes Panama hats

 

[Neophyte]

i think the Beaver vs Rabbit thing is really a very subjective opinion thing. having owned and worn felt hats of BOTH felts for over 40+ years now, it ALL depends on the quality level of each as made by the makers as to their quality and "wearability" .
As for whether one is cooler or hotter, NO felt hat is comfortable in 100+ degree heat whether it's in Southern California or West Texas. That's why Ecuador makes Panama hats

See, that's what I was thinking; that a big factor in the quality depends on the hatmaker. That said, thanks to you guys it seems that either quality would equally suit my purposes. Thank you everyone !

 

[frussell]

i think the Beaver vs Rabbit thing is really a very subjective opinion thing. having owned and worn felt hats of BOTH felts for over 40+ years now, it ALL depends on the quality level of each as made by the makers as to their quality and "wearability" .
As for whether one is cooler or hotter, NO felt hat is comfortable in 100+ degree heat whether it's in Southern California or West Texas. That's why Ecuador makes Panama hats

Like you said, a very "subjective opinion thing." We have both stated our opinions, and it sounds like we've got about the same length of time wearing cowboy hats. I lived in lovely hot and humid Houston the first 20+ years of my life, and in the up to 120+degrees heat of the California desert for the last 20+. I spend a good deal of time with a hat on in weather over 100 degrees, and I have to disagree with you on one small point. My finer beaver felt hats feel just fine, and compare well with the straw cowboy hats I've had. I just wouldn't wear a black one on those days, as it's an invitation for heatstroke. Quality is definitely the key, whether rabbit or beaver. Major Moore should be able to steer you in the right direction, Neophyte. I've done business with him several times, and he is a hell of a guy, and knows his western hats. Frank

 

[fmw]

That brings up a question for me. When I see XXXX beaver on the headband of one of my Stetsons is that telling me it is 4% beaver or 40% beaver or something else?

 

[msm007]

Just to add my two cents. I recently purchased a Resistol 120 on Ebay - I was looking for a resistol 20x or higher. I did not know so much about it and got a lot of good info from another lounger, suitedcboy. He really knows about western hats, too! It seems that this hat 120 refers to what you would pay for it (120 dollars), not the beaver content. The hat is about 40 years old and looks like it was never used. It has a smooth velvet like feel to it. I would swear that it is 100 beaver or very close. It holds up to almost anything.

 

[gtdean48]

That brings up a question for me. When I see XXXX beaver on the headband of one of my Stetsons is that telling me it is 4% beaver or 40% beaver or something else?

Something else...only Stetson knows for sure & won' tell anybody.

7X Clear Beaver & Stetson 100 are 100% Beaver fur felt....the rest is a mystery...

 

[Neophyte]

Oh Stetson, you and your labrynthine marketing labels [bad].

 

[fmw]

Hmmmm. Curious. If they keep "qualitY" levels secret then there probably aren't quality levels or, at least, not as many as one would imagine. Perhaps when you buy more X's you get more finishing or something other than a different material. They have as good a name as any in the Western hat world. Why would they hide behind a secret "quality" code? Frankly it makes no sense to me. Personally, if I were choosing between a $150 Stetson and a $1500 Stetson, I'd like to understand what I'm buying and why.

 

[monbla256]

Hmmmm. Curious. If they keep "qualitY" levels secret then there probably aren't quality levels or, at least, not as many as one would imagine. Perhaps when you buy more X's you get more finishing or something other than a different material. They have as good a name as any in the Western hat world. Why would they hide behind a secret "quality" code? Frankly it makes no sense to me. Personally, if I were choosing between a $150 Stetson and a $1500 Stetson, I'd like to understand what I'm buying and why.

I think that back probably 100 years ago, when MOST hats were made from Beaver fur, ( remember we had a LARGE Beaver trapping/fur industry then) that the X designation came about to level of quality of the Beaver fur used. The public learned to accept it and payed and bought accordingly and has continued to this day. But times and the fur market has changed but not the marketing In the rabbit fur world now, the X's don't have the same conotation they once did but the hat firms would like you to continue to believe they do. As has been pointed out, you ONLY get Beaver when it is said to be Beaver and these hats are usually way above the $250.00 range generally speaking. It's all marketing