Vintage Suitings: Discussions of, and sourcing modern equivalents, etc.

[Fastuni]

Interesting. How so?

I am referring to the effects of wartime/postwar scarcity and saving measures.
An increasing quantity of fabric was blends of recycled clothing, second-rate wool and non-wool fibers.
(Also a decrease in pattern/color varieties as compared to the pre-war years.)

Well into the 50's (in Europe) stressing "pre-war" was a sign of superior quality.
Not only for textiles but also other commodities.
The German expression "echte Vorkriegsware" (real pre-war product) has become proverbial.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

By late 1939, Tailor and Cutter reports:

“SUITS FROM WOOL WASTE”. Germany plans to make a single National men’s suit material of 60% wool waste and 40% staple wool. It will be provided in 4 colours so as not to give the impression that civilians are in uniform.”

I suspect that the return from such poor stuff was slow in the economically tough postwar years.

Has anyone ever seen or handled a "standard suit"?

 

[Two Types]

Regarding recycled wool: Somewhere I have a newspaper article (from about 1926) about the level of use of recycled wool in British clothing. I must dig it out and post it here.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The British WWI "Standard Suit", largely of recycled & shoddy material, is notorious.

 

[Fastuni]

Hm... I'll check in foreseeable time the "Rundschau" from 1939/40 regarding this.
Would be good to know how exactly this "standard fabric" looked like. I certainly have handled poor recylced wool fabrics from the period, but I can't say whether these are pre-1939 third rate fabrics or from later years.
I guess that there still was a variety of patterns in these four colors (blue, grey, brown, black).

Anyway there was still plenty of pre-war cloth and garments around, so despite rationing, a costumer who could afford some better or fancier stuff could get it.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The date of the Tailor and Cutter report was 6-10-1939

In the 3-11-1939 edition, , Germany had introduced rationing on “all articles of men’s and women’s wearing apparel … and coupons are now being issued”

 

[Two Types]

From the Daily Mail in 1929:

 

[herringbonekid]

"flapper-bracket" ?

 

[Two Types]

Yep, that's a new one on me.

 

[herringbonekid]

i didn't realise that 'shoddy' actually meant recycled material. i must say i have nothing against the idea of recycled wool if the end result looks and feels good.

 

[Tomasso]

i didn't realise that 'shoddy' actually meant recycled material.

Shoddy:

Recycled or remanufactured wool. Historically generated from loosely woven materials. Benjamin Law invented shoddy and mungo, as such, in England in 1813. He was the first to organise, on a larger scale, the activity of taking old clothes and grinding them down into a fibrous state that could be re-spun into yarn. The shoddy industry was centred on the towns of Batley, Morley, Dewsbury and Ossett in West Yorkshire, and concentrated on the recovery of wool from rags. The importance of the industry can be gauged by the fact that even in 1860 the town of Batley was producing over 7000 tonnes of shoddy. At the time there were 80 firms employing a total of 550 people sorting the rags. These were then sold to shoddy manufacturers of which there were about 130 in the West Riding. Shoddy is inferior to the original wool; "shoddy" has come to mean "of poor quality" in general (not related to clothing), and the original meaning is largely obsolete.

 

[Guttersnipe]

i didn't realise that 'shoddy' actually meant recycled material. i must say i have nothing against the idea of recycled wool if the end result looks and feels good.

Shoddy wool was extensively used in the manufacturing of military clothing throughout the mid-19th century and into the Second Word War.

Actually, it's use in heavy military overcoats is one of the main reasons why the notion that weight alone can qualify as quality is a misnomer. Late-war German overcoats made of shoddy during WWI and WWII were quit heavy, but piss poor quality none the less.

 

[Fastuni]

The main disadvantage of shoddy/recylced wool blends:
The fibers are shorter than new wool and thus have less cohesion, are more prone to creases and the edges easily fringe.
One can determine the "shoddyness" of a fabric by inspecting the cut edge, and a close look on the colour. If one notices that the fabrics consists of numerous different colour fibres it is obviously a blend.

The quality of course depends on the ratio of shoddy-blend. Also the quality of the shredded garments will have an effect. So not every fabric with some amount of recycled wool is necessarily terrible.

 

[Tomasso]

You fellas would have loved perusing the fabric stores for vintage suiting in NYC, back in the 80s. Between the Garment District and Canal Street there were probably over a hundred shops where you might come across some of the old stuff. And at really good prices since there was hardly any demand.

Then in the early 90s there appeared an article in the NY Times style section extolling the virtues of vintage suiting. It talked about a handful of well dressed gents who regularly frequented these shops in search of this forgotten and overlooked cloth. A friend of mine was one of those guys and I would occasionally join him on his scouting expeditions. I don't recall a single time that we weren't the only ones in a shop sifting through the "old" pile. But after the article came out, hundreds of dandies descended on these shops like a swarm of locusts, decimating the supply within matter of months.

Most of the shops never restocked but there are still a couple of dozen places that you'll find some, albeit with a much stiffer tariff.

Those were the days, my friend

We thought they'd never end.....

 

[Two Types]

A.C. - As someone who has been around a bit longer than most of us and who has been described as (I think I found this in an online article) "the best dressed man in Hollywood":
What was your favourite suit of all those you have ever owned?

 

[Fastuni]

Here the promised photo of the 13 meter bolt of heavy 30's Austrian cloth.
Burgundy red and silver (twisted white and black silk) pinstripes on medium grey (slightly blueish hue) herringbone.

 

[herringbonekid]

great find Fastuni. i'm more than a little jealous. looks quite rough in a tweedy way.

 

[Rudie]

Here the promised photo of the 13 meter bolt of heavy 30's Austrian cloth.
Burgundy red and silver (twisted white and black silk) pinstripes on medium grey (slightly blueish hue) herringbone.

[HYPNOSIS MODE ON]Fastuni, your arms are getting heavy. Your ears are getting heavy. You are now deeply hypnotized. You feel the intense urge to let go of 5.5 meters of this fabric. This urge will get stronger and stronger until you sell them to me. Then it will dissolve and disappear and you're gonna feel happy, wonderful and marvelous in every way.[/HYPNOSIS MODE OFF]

 

[Two Types]

Two jackets (one single breasted & one double breasted), one waistcoat, and three pairs of trousers (always going to need extra trousers for such a nice suit) - should still leave enough spare for someone else to make a suit.

 

[Fastuni]

Yes, as TT suggested.
I don't need all 13 meters, so I might sell off some length, Rudie.
But before making any commitments I will have to calculate exactly how much I need to make for myself 1 DB suit, 1 SB notch lapel suit, 1 SB peak lapel suit. So three coats, three wide pants and one waistcoat. So it would be around 9 meters, leaving 4 meters to sell. 4 meters are enough for a 3 piece suit in Long size I think. Give me a week to consider...