Vintage Car Thread - Discussion and Parts Requests

[jamespowers]

I think the tops should have been done differently, but they were the last to come with a factory vinyl top. The '96 Fleetwood Brougham was sort of the end of an era in a lot of ways. It was the end of GM's body-on-frame, RWD, V8 sedan. It was the end of all metal (chrome) bumpers, vinyl tops, and of the big car. These were the biggest Cadillacs GM had offered since the seventies.

It was definitely the end and they were beginning to jump the shark. The vinyl tops were really dated by then anyway. They should have just left them off. However, they should still produce a large sized Cadillac like the Brougham.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I think it's a good option. You could order them without, but clearly more people preferred them on the car. I'm dreading the day I have to shoehorn myself into a DeVille, after the Fleetwood's retirement.

A new Brougham would make me happy, but Cadillac's 'Art and Science' spiel they're pulling these days doesn't look promising for any car with any real sort of class. Give me traditional class, landau roofs, burlwood dashboards, big V8's, whitewalls, wire wheels, pillowtop velour seats, power everything, and goodies like hideaway headlights. Everything today is so cold and sterile. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being hospital waiting room, and 10 being Victorian parlor, I want a car with qualities closer to ten, not one, which is where Cadillac's going.

It was definitely the end and they were beginning to jump the shark. The vinyl tops were really dated by then anyway. They should have just left them off. However, they should still produce a large sized Cadillac like the Brougham.

 

[Stearmen]

My father-in-law (now 89 years old) tells a story on himself about falling out of his dad's car. It must have been around 1932 or so. They lived at Plumtree, NC (in the NC mountains) and were riding on one of the typical mountain roads of the day. The car went around a sharp curve and my father-in-law fell out. He said he remembers it well, because he was eating a banana at the time and had on a leather aviators hat. He said he hit the ground and rolled a couple times, but never dropped the banana. The way he tells the story, especially the details of the banana and the aviators hat, you have no trouble visualizing the scene.

Reminds me of the story my Grandfather would tell. Right after WWI he was in the back of a truck with his brothers and friends going back to the farm from town. They were all drunk, suddenly some one said, where's OLLIE . Then some one said, we need to turn around OLLIE has fallen out. When they found him, he must have fallen on his head, big gash and lots of blood, but OLLIE didn't even know he had fallen off the truck!

 

[jamespowers]

I think it's a good option. You could order them without, but clearly more people preferred them on the car. I'm dreading the day I have to shoehorn myself into a DeVille, after the Fleetwood's retirement.

A new Brougham would make me happy, but Cadillac's 'Art and Science' spiel they're pulling these days doesn't look promising for any car with any real sort of class. Give me traditional class, landau roofs, burlwood dashboards, big V8's, whitewalls, wire wheels, pillowtop velour seats, power everything, and goodies like hideaway headlights. Everything today is so cold and sterile. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being hospital waiting room, and 10 being Victorian parlor, I want a car with qualities closer to ten, not one, which is where Cadillac's going.

If you like it then don't retire it then. People just bought what was on the lot at the time. You would have to wait nearly a month to special order a Cadillac without a hippie top or with special options. People just took what they could get and Cadillac didn't make the car any cheaper without hippie vinyl so they just took it and figured they might as well get something for the extra money. Cold and sterile doesn't work for me either. They are designing luxury cars with sports car interior and exteriors. There is a difference and they should draw a line---but sports car interiors are cheaper to produce so sucker public takes what they get once again......

 

[jamespowers]

Reminds me of the story my Grandfather would tell. Right after WWI he was in the back of a truck with his brothers and friends going back to the farm from town. They were all drunk, suddenly some one said, where's OLLIE . Then some one said, we need to turn around OLLIE has fallen out. When they found him, he must have fallen on his head, big gash and lots of blood, but OLLIE didn't even know he had fallen off the truck!

That was some good liquor!

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Eventually, I'll have to put her into retirement, or at least reduced use. She already has 165,000 miles on her. I think you don't give the vinyl top enough credit. I see plenty with the carriage roof, and a few slick tops.

They may be able to sucker some of the public, but not me. I'd be happy if they built 'em like they used to. Big, safe, comfortable, chrome-laden sofas on wheels.

If you like it then don't retire it then. People just bought what was on the lot at the time. You would have to wait nearly a month to special order a Cadillac without a hippie top or with special options. People just took what they could get and Cadillac didn't make the car any cheaper without hippie vinyl so they just took it and figured they might as well get something for the extra money. Cold and sterile doesn't work for me either. They are designing luxury cars with sports car interior and exteriors. There is a difference and they should draw a line---but sports car interiors are cheaper to produce so sucker public takes what they get once again......

 

[jamespowers]

Eventually, I'll have to put her into retirement, or at least reduced use. She already has 165,000 miles on her. I think you don't give the vinyl top enough credit. I see plenty with the carriage roof, and a few slick tops.

They may be able to sucker some of the public, but not me. I'd be happy if they built 'em like they used to. Big, safe, comfortable, chrome-laden sofas on wheels.

165,00 just means you use it until you have to rebuild the engine for its second go around. No problem. I am on 107,000 with my Brougham. I'll have it rebuilt if it goes on me. All the vinyl tops are good for is collecting rust. Fixing one is bad enough already.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I like the way they look.

165,00 just means you use it until you have to rebuild the engine for its second go around. No problem. I am on 107,000 with my Brougham. I'll have it rebuilt if it goes on me. All the vinyl tops are good for is collecting rust. Fixing one is bad enough already.

 

[jamespowers]

I like the way they look.

The rebuilt engine?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Mine are suicide doors on a coupe.
The locks are manual, and they lock into the cowl.
So far I've tested it up to 73mph and the doors didn't come open, I give that a good rating.

I also have suicide-doors for my back seat -- but the seat itself is set far enough back behind the doors that it's impossible for the passengers to lean on them without leaning way forward, and there wouldn't be much point in that. I'd be more concerned with the damage done to the doors from them flinging open at high speed than on anyone falling out of the car.

My mother grew up with suicide doors, and we had "DON'T LEAN ON THE DOOR!" drilled into us as kids, even though we always had cars with safety doors.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

That, too, but I meant the vinyl tops.

The rebuilt engine?

 

[jamespowers]

That, too, but I meant the vinyl tops.

You need one on your truck then---along with stacks.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Nah, but I am looking at buying another truck. It's two tone, and the roof is painted a different color than the body.

You need one on your truck then---along with stacks.

 

[jamespowers]

Nah, but I am looking at buying another truck. It's two tone, and the roof is painted a different color than the body.

Like a fake vinyl top. I know what you need:

 

[Stanley Doble]

Lizzie do you mind telling me what it cost to rebuild your engine? Broken down by cost to rebuild, and cost to remove and replace engine?

This is not idle curiosity. I post to some old car boards where the question is asked, what kind of modern engine should I put in my old Dodge/Plymouth/DeSoto/Chrysler in place of the flathead six? This question comes up every few weeks.

My reply is always, the flathead six is a good engine, simple and easy to work on and all parts are available. Unless the rod is sticking through the block it would be easier and cheaper to fix the engine than replace it.

It would help if I could give an accurate idea of what a rebuild costs these days.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The engine work came to about $3000 all told -- but I had it done by a specialty shop, at $70 an hour labor, and they tore it completely down before putting it back together. It came to about $500 for removal and reinstallation of the engine.

It was pricey -- more than I expected, really -- but I have no question that the engine will outlive me. And you saw what it looked like before it went in -- broken and cracked pistons, shattered rings, burning a quart of oil every day, etc. They did a real nice job.

However, the damn brakes are going to drive me to drink. They're *still* tightening up on me after fifteen miles or so -- the brake light sticking on is the first warning sign, and when I touched one of the front drums this morning it was like sticking my finger on a hot iron. It takes about an hour to cool down again to the point where the brake light goes out.

I'm coming up on a five-hundred-mile checkup, and I'm going to give them a hard time about this. I may see if I can find a shop locally to back the MC piston off a bit more before I try to drive it back up there -- it's a 60 mile drive, and I don't want to be having to stop every twenty miles to sit for an hour.

 

[Stanley Doble]

You are right not to drive until the brakes are fixed properly. I'm beginning to wonder if they forgot to drill the pressure relief hole when they sleeved the master cylinder.

You should be able to feel if the pedal is adjusted correctly. Push it down lightly with your hand. It should go 1/2" to 1" with no resistance at all. Then slight resistance as you push down until the brakes engage and the brake lights come on.

If not, adjust the clearance of the brake pedal rod to the master cylinder.

If it is correctly adjusted and the brakes still do not release fully the master cylinder must be faulty.

If the pressure is not releasing, the brakes will drag and as they get hotter and hotter pressure builds up more and more, like a steam boiler, in a feedback loop that does not end until the brakes are completely burned out.

 

[LizzieMaine]

It's fine when it's cold -- there's almost exactly an inch of free play before the brake light comes on. Driving it for three or four miles it's fine. But fifteen miles and the brake drums are hot and the light sticks on for about an hour before it cools down and the pressure relieves.

I'm thinking the shoes might be adjusted too close and heat up enough to start dragging, and then expand enough to build the pressure until the cycle becomes self-perpetuating.

I've made an appointment to take it to a local guy who has been recommended to me by a couple of old-car folks. He's about four miles from here, and that ought to get it warm enough to suggest where the problem is without siezing it up entirely.

The brakes were fine until the last round of adjustments began -- the guy who did them was concerned the pedal was spongier than it needed to be, and I'm convinced he overcompensated.

 

[Stanley Doble]

If I could get a look at it I could figure it out in minutes. The pedal free play as already described, then the pressure relief hole.

Roll back the carpet on the driver's side, take off an access cover held down by one philips screw and you can get at the master cylinder. Clean off any dirt and unscrew the cap. If the brake fluid is clear enough you can see a little hole about the size of a match stick towards the back of the reservoir, this is the relief port. Poke a wire down in it, it should be perfectly clear. If the piston or rubber cup is in the way it is not open. The pedal rod needs to be adjusted. If there is metal in the way the port was not drilled after the sleeve was installed.

Just had another thought. There is supposed to be a spring under the car that retracts the brake pedal, if it is missing the pedal may not retract enough.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Ah -- it looks like the floor pan has been replaced and the replacement omitted the access hatch. A lot of the non-body metalwork on this car was pound-n-bend out of somebody's home workshop (the gas tank I replaced was a thing to marvel at) so this does not come as a surprise.

The spring *feels* like it's there -- the pedal has a nice bouncy action when you release the pressure, so I'm thinking it's OK. I just had it out for a short drive to the grocery store without any problems, but that was only a mile or so.

Given these issues though, I'm going to have to take a pass on the parade tomorrow. We had an unfortunate incident in Maine at a 4th of July parade this year where the brakes on a 1930 fire truck suddenly gave out and the truck ended up killing a man, so we'd rather not take any chances. There goes my tax deduction for using the car for "advertising purposes."