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Ventile
- Thread starter Dudleydoright
- Start date
Dudleydoright
A-List Customer
- Messages
- 408
- Location
- UK
Hal said:
I always thought that what it meant was that you would lose 40% of your total bodyheat loss through your head assuming that the rest of you was suitably covered up. i.e. that you still lose 60% of your heat through your clothed body.
That to me seems logical.
Dave
BellyTank
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 7,061
Well- I think what the article was getting at was that the "myth" is
about wearing a hat, or not and that there's nothing so special about yer heed
when talking heat loss. If you had holes in your trousers, you might lose 40% of your heat through yer knees.
I think the "myth" made folks assume that you lose proportionately MORE heat through the head.
I rarely wear a hat when I'm out in the cold and snow- maybe I should wear less layers and a hat. It's -7 now and has been minus since Christmas- everyone but me seems to be wearing a hat.
B
T
about wearing a hat, or not and that there's nothing so special about yer heed
when talking heat loss. If you had holes in your trousers, you might lose 40% of your heat through yer knees.
I think the "myth" made folks assume that you lose proportionately MORE heat through the head.
I rarely wear a hat when I'm out in the cold and snow- maybe I should wear less layers and a hat. It's -7 now and has been minus since Christmas- everyone but me seems to be wearing a hat.
B
T
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H.Johnson
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,562
- Location
- Midlands, UK
I have just finshed the (very boring) task of examining a number of samples of Ventile(R) cotton and ventile-like fabrics under high magnification. Where possible I took a small piece apart to examine the thread to see how it had been woven and from what.
The conclusion? There were as many differences in weave and appearance between different samples of 'real' Ventile(R) [i.e. labelled fabric] as there was between ventile-type [i.e. unlabelled] fabric. According to specification, Ventile(R) should have an unusual Oxford weave in that the 'warp to weft' is 3:1 ('normal' Oxford shirting, for instance, is 2:1) and the warp thread is not tightly spun.
The new Ventile(R) samples appear to have been treated with a water resistant substance, whereas the older ones (the oldest sample was the 1950s) appear not to be. Whether this is because the DWR has deteriorated or whether it was not used on the older samples, I wouldn't like to speculate. Anyway, I think I now understand a little more about how Ventile(R) works and what it looks like.
Someone above likened Ventile(R) to Grenfell cloth. One is a plain weave (same both sides) and the other is a twill (fifferent on each side). My observation is that the two cloths work in very different ways to more or less the same effect. To me, Grenfell cloth 'feels' much nicer, but ventile puts me in the mood for serious hiking....
The conclusion? There were as many differences in weave and appearance between different samples of 'real' Ventile(R) [i.e. labelled fabric] as there was between ventile-type [i.e. unlabelled] fabric. According to specification, Ventile(R) should have an unusual Oxford weave in that the 'warp to weft' is 3:1 ('normal' Oxford shirting, for instance, is 2:1) and the warp thread is not tightly spun.
The new Ventile(R) samples appear to have been treated with a water resistant substance, whereas the older ones (the oldest sample was the 1950s) appear not to be. Whether this is because the DWR has deteriorated or whether it was not used on the older samples, I wouldn't like to speculate. Anyway, I think I now understand a little more about how Ventile(R) works and what it looks like.
Someone above likened Ventile(R) to Grenfell cloth. One is a plain weave (same both sides) and the other is a twill (fifferent on each side). My observation is that the two cloths work in very different ways to more or less the same effect. To me, Grenfell cloth 'feels' much nicer, but ventile puts me in the mood for serious hiking....
BellyTank
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 7,061
I had a "Ventile(?)" swatch from PointNorth which was a very, very fine twill.
It was being sold as Ventile...
B
T
It was being sold as Ventile...
B
T
H.Johnson
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,562
- Location
- Midlands, UK
Exactly. I obtained a length of said material from the same source in orde rto know up a copy of a vintage 'rak. It was this that started me dissecting different fabrics that are claimed (or assumed) to be 'ventile'. In many cases I think we only have the vendor's word that the fabric is Ventile(R).
A classic case is the Royal Navy 'ventile' (sic) windproof smock that sells (for lots) at Internet auctions. I worked (in purchasing) for a company that had the contract some years ago. My memory may fail me sometimes, but I'm rather sure that if we had to order Ventile(R) to the specification I would remember it. Very few military garments say 'Ventile(R)' on the label, yet they look, feel and act like Ventile(R). Lots of civilian fabrics don't look, feel or act like Ventile(R) but claim to be it. Go figure, as I believe they say...
A classic case is the Royal Navy 'ventile' (sic) windproof smock that sells (for lots) at Internet auctions. I worked (in purchasing) for a company that had the contract some years ago. My memory may fail me sometimes, but I'm rather sure that if we had to order Ventile(R) to the specification I would remember it. Very few military garments say 'Ventile(R)' on the label, yet they look, feel and act like Ventile(R). Lots of civilian fabrics don't look, feel or act like Ventile(R) but claim to be it. Go figure, as I believe they say...
Creeping Past
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,567
- Location
- England
H.Johnson said:
And, as has been mentioned previously, some cotton fabrics that definitely R not Ventile work to the same effect when used on hikes. Think breathability, windproofness and acting as a barrier to water incursion when wet.
nobodyspecial
Practically Family
- Messages
- 514
- Location
- St. Paul, Minnesota
I forgot I had taken these photos of a Snow Lion mountain parka some time ago, since sold to a friend. The shell is 100% cotton and the lining is 65/35 fabric. The label does not say Ventile, but I am certain the parka would have been advertised as such. Ventile may have been used generically here for any similar 100% cotton fabric. This particular parka would have been a bit spendy in it's day relative to other similar style mountain paraks made of more common 60/40 or 65/35 fabric.
Front
Back
Rear zipper pocket opening
Mesh lining in the shoulder cape, accessible through the rear zippered pocket.
Label
More photos of the above plus various other mountain parkas here.
http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a249/meganandrusty/mountain parkas/
Front
Back
Rear zipper pocket opening
Mesh lining in the shoulder cape, accessible through the rear zippered pocket.
Label
More photos of the above plus various other mountain parkas here.
http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a249/meganandrusty/mountain parkas/
What are the identifying characteristics of Ventile(R)? Handle? Appearance?
The reason I'm asking is that I think I may have been in possession of a Ventile(R) garment for years without knowing it. It's somewhat improbable: a Banana Republic interpretation of the US M-1951 fishtail parka. I bought it in New York in 1992 (when BR were still making interesting outdoor stuff) and have worn it in many a New York and London rainstorm. I dug it out the other day (with the lining in, it makes a good snow-coat and we did have a little bit of that down in Devon), and then decided to check its reaction to water. Which is: initially, water pools on the surface like mercury. After about a minute it begins to wet, but the cloth doesn't wick: only the area directly covered by the water wets. I made a little pool, and it was still a pool a few minutes later - droplets on the other side, but no drips. I haven't experimented any further so far, but we're never short of rain around here...
Structure-wise, it's a very, very fine 100% cotton (the only clue on the label) twill, with definite diagonal lines and a faint up/down grid visible, especially on the reverse.
Could I throw this over to the experts?
The reason I'm asking is that I think I may have been in possession of a Ventile(R) garment for years without knowing it. It's somewhat improbable: a Banana Republic interpretation of the US M-1951 fishtail parka. I bought it in New York in 1992 (when BR were still making interesting outdoor stuff) and have worn it in many a New York and London rainstorm. I dug it out the other day (with the lining in, it makes a good snow-coat and we did have a little bit of that down in Devon), and then decided to check its reaction to water. Which is: initially, water pools on the surface like mercury. After about a minute it begins to wet, but the cloth doesn't wick: only the area directly covered by the water wets. I made a little pool, and it was still a pool a few minutes later - droplets on the other side, but no drips. I haven't experimented any further so far, but we're never short of rain around here...
Structure-wise, it's a very, very fine 100% cotton (the only clue on the label) twill, with definite diagonal lines and a faint up/down grid visible, especially on the reverse.
Could I throw this over to the experts?
Creeping Past
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,567
- Location
- England
Can't tell. Some kind of canvas duck? Not soft to the touch, then?
Creeping Past
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,567
- Location
- England
pipvh said:
Could be. Or might not be...
nobodyspecial
Practically Family
- Messages
- 514
- Location
- St. Paul, Minnesota
Empire Canvas Works field coat now available in ventile.
http://www.empirecanvasworks.com/fieldcoat.htm
http://www.empirecanvasworks.com/fieldcoat.htm
Hi All, A bit late to the party, but thought I would bring this excellent thread back up to date. Like many I am really fond of Ventile, I bought one of the Royal Navy smocks seen here on a very windy day up on Wrynose Pass. Could not fault it's performance, but as has been mentioned they are a tad heavy.
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Talbot-Weaving supply to a local mill in my Lancashire hometown, so I decided to make my own
Here is the end result which has just come back from a weekend jaunt in Finland. A double-lined Heroes Of Telemark inspired Ventile smock.
Talbot-Weaving supply to a local mill in my Lancashire hometown, so I decided to make my own
Here is the end result which has just come back from a weekend jaunt in Finland. A double-lined Heroes Of Telemark inspired Ventile smock.
imoldfashioned
Call Me a Cab
- Messages
- 2,979
- Location
- USA
What a clever man! It looks great!! What pattern did you use? And where did you source the fabric as I'd love to make one!!!
Hiya, I took my idea to http://www.beaver-of-bolton.co.uk/ with the help of the owner and using photos of the Telemark smocks we had the pattern made. He uses Ventile, and is on very good terms with the owner of Talbot Weaving who supply Ventile in the UK. It's been slow going but I am very happy with the end result, I even managed to source the identical swing-ball zip puller that can be seen on the Telemark smocks. These pullers were also used on smocks from the 1940's.
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At the moment I have 2 more being made up in Stone and Royal Blue, as seen here.
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I'm hoping in the near future to be able to sell them on a bespoke basis.
Cheers.
At the moment I have 2 more being made up in Stone and Royal Blue, as seen here.
I'm hoping in the near future to be able to sell them on a bespoke basis.
Cheers.
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- METROPOLIS OF EUROPA
Great job..! The sand coloured one should look outstanding ! But the navy is impressive. I'm a long time lover of Ventile Fabric (& the similar Grenfell fabric). I had a jacket from Survival Aids in Cumbria for many years from the early 80s! Now have a Barbour ventile coat (not making them anymore due to the expense and low profit margins on them. Built like a tank!). See pics of the Barbour.
