Ventile

[Creeping Past]

Wool undershirt, string vest, wool/cotton shirt and anorak has served me well in biting wind down to zero in the past year. Kind of similar. I admit to wearing a sweater beneath the top layer.

 

[Creeping Past]

To get us back on track to some other cotton wonder-fabrics:

I've come across plenty of references to Grenfell (presumably Mr Johnson's mysterious 'G' cloth) when researching vintage outerwear, but also occasional ones to 'Oxford cloth.' What is said Oxford cloth - a specific creature like Ventile, or a broader and now defunct term for something along those lines?

Yes, where are the textile historians? I've not been able to find out anything definite about the fabrics you mention - or different grades of canvas for windproof clothing - in a couple of years of searching. I've collected some useful info but nothing that pins down a precise definition or manufacturer's specification. So much of this information, which was once presumably so commonplace that it didn't merit recording, has disappeared.

I was looking into all this so that I could get an approximate match to the old fabrics in the nearest modern alternatives, but no dice.

 

[BellyTank]

What is said Oxford cloth - a specific creature like Ventile, or a broader and now defunct term for something along those lines?

If you were to GooGlpedia it, you would no doubt find out a lot about Oxford weave shirts and the basket-weave texture of the Cloth.

But I think there is another "Oxford" termed cloth, perhaps not older
but definitely a different cloth (I could be wrong).
I'm thinking of a heavy, outer cloth, like Bedford Cord, Jungle Cloth, etc.
I think it may be something like Bedford Cord but with the "cord", or wale "horizontal", rather than "vertical" in the cloth. Something like that.
I want to know for sure, now.

B
T

 

[BellyTank]

Yes, where are the textile historians?

Yes, indeed- I remember when we were both trying to get to the bottom of the heavy cotton/Canvas/Duck conundrum. It seems that terms come and go, get picked up again and used for a different thing.

Now, what was that heavy, plain-weave cloth, that doesn't look like what we know to be canvas..?

Remember? We were looking for Anorak cloth! Is that 2 years ago?

I'm very interested that there seems to be a plain AND a twill/Gab weave VENTILE cloth. Intrigued.


B
T

 

[Creeping Past]

Yes, indeed- I remember when we were both trying to get to the bottom of the heavy cotton/Canvas/Duck conundrum. It seems that terms come and go, get picked up again and used for a different thing.

Now, what was that heavy, plain-weave cloth, that doesn't look like what we know to be canvas..?

Remember? We were looking for Anorak cloth! Is that 2 years ago?

I'm very interested that there seems to be a plain AND a twill/Gab weave VENTILE cloth. Intrigued.

B
T

Yep, that was quite an adventure! And we've still not had the medal struck.

I particularly like that we're not the only ones...

 

[pipvh]

Right - in fact Ventile is an Oxford-weave cloth. I wonder if Grenfell is as well: the only info I've found so far is that it's Egyptian cotton with a 600 threads per inch count. There must be other proprietary and non-proprietary materials out there - Burberry? Aquascutum? - that are essentially the same thing. Burberry invented Gabardine, but the Gabardine clothing worn by explorers was wool, I believe, and in any case it's a twill weave, so cotton Gabardine wouldn't strictly speaking be similar to Ventile.

Now we really need Mr Johnson...

 

[pipvh]

Posted the above before I'd read the preceeding posts - apologies for chewing over old material...

 

[BellyTank]

Well- I have had samples of VENTILE in plain weave and Gab.
I believe "cotton gab" was used by explorers, both in the tropics and up
high mountains and other cold places. I have a vintage trench coat, which is
a cotton gab but is it Grenfell...? no label.
Also, the Grenfell "name" has been stuck on all manner of clothing and textiles, you occasionally see a tweed jacket with the Grenfell label but I presume that's Haythornthwaites using their legacy to sell.

What is "waterproof cotton"?


B
T

 

[Creeping Past]

What is "waterproof cotton"?

Last year Hackett in London were selling a raincoat made of 100% cotton, which they said was waterproof. It was made from an Italian fabric not unlike the V-fabric. I couldn't get any more out of Hackett on whether it was naturally waterproof or treated. Of course, I was trying to get them to tell me about their fabric supplier, but nothing doing.

Interesting that the Italians have moved on to making more classic formerly British fabrics...

 

[number6]

Ventile grades

BAS anoraks are made from L19 Ventile , BAS tents from L28 Ventile, the former is a slightly lighter form . The L28 is a military spec material, If I recall only BAS and the MOD use it .

 

[pipvh]

And now that Grenfell is back in UK ownership and with a new (non-functioning) online shop, perhaps we'll see some interesting things from them. The rest of their website is definitely playing up the exploration legacy quite heavily.

 

[Creeping Past]

And now that Grenfell is back in UK ownership and with a new (non-functioning) online shop, perhaps we'll see some interesting things from them. The rest of their website is definitely playing up the exploration legacy quite heavily.

This link to Grenfell stuff works.

Interesting that the safari jacket is made from Italian cotton fabric (see my post below).

Here's Grenfell: http://www.grenfelluk.com/history.html

Further edit: may I suggest that either this thread is renamed "Ventile and other water-resistant cotton", or something, or a new "Cotton outdoors clothing" thread? Thoughts?

 

[Dudleydoright]

Can't see any reason to change the title myself.

If people want to deviate / hijack a thread ....................

Anyone can feel free to start another one .....

Dave

 

[BellyTank]

Off topic again- but it's Sunday.

Today-
String T-shirt, Swedish army worsted wool undershirt and the NZ classic; black, wool bush/shearers singlet(no gents, I didn't say bush shearer's singlet)
...and the cadet smock-

Too hot on today's walk, at -4c (no wind)and I only had on underwear and an Anorak (no hat, either)! I think I'm off to get my thyroid checked out.

I can easily see the difference between "cold"(-C) and "wet"(rain + cold)
now. In the last 10 days, I have been out and about with woolen underwear and an Anorak at temps down to -14c and not got cold at all- most times,
I have been a bit too warm at a good walking pace.

The "you lose 40% of your body heat through yer heed" myth is a myth now.
I read so.

B
T

 

[pipvh]

Here's a bona fide Ventile question:

Can you dye the stuff? I'm thinking about snagging one of the old Banana Republic Ventile safari jackets that come up on the 'bay every now and then, but I'd want it to be olive green or khaki. Given the inherently water-repellent nature of the weave, would it even absorb dye?

 

[H.Johnson]

I have experienced problems in dying Ventile(R) and ventile-type fabrics, I surmise that this is not because of the cloth itself, but because many examples are coated with some preparation or other that inhibits the absorption of water.

I think we have discussed why this may be, when the way in which Ventile(R) is supposed to work is by absorbing water to swell the threads and created a barrier to further absorption. This would suggest that it possible to dye the fabric effectively, which experience suggests it isn't always so.

Manufacturers don't seem to have this problem as they almost certainly dye the thread or fabric before it is coated. I can only suggest that you try a small sample with the dye before doing the whole garment.

Since Dave was good enough to start this thread I have been examining Ventile(R) and similar fabrics under a microscope, and I have picked some apart to see how it is made (you need a very thin, sharp point...). Various samples from various weavers over the years (Ventile as a trade mark has passed through a number of hands) and I really don't know what to make of it. All of the samples are slightly different. They seem to be made of different cottons, different 'tightness' of spinning and different thread patterns (Ventile(R) is supposed to be 3-to-1, but some of it isn't). I know there are different grades or types of Ventile(R) but I'm beginning to wonder if there is any standard fabric that defines 'Ventile(R)'.

 

[Dudleydoright]

Here's one of my favourite everday use ventile jackets.

Double layered, lightweight, in the style of the older Grenfell cloth hiking jackets of the 50's & 60's.

The two rear pockets are very useful.....

I get the feeling that , judging by the complete lack of other peoples' photos of their own ventile garments, that I'm the only person in the world who is actually using ventile !!

Cheers,
Dave

 

[nobodyspecial]

I have a Snow Lion ventile mountain parka in a medium picked up at a thrift store, sadly I need a large so the ventile version resides in my collection. That's as close as I've come to finding one.

 

[Dudleydoright]

I have a Snow Lion ventile mountain parka in a medium picked up at a thrift store, sadly I need a large so the ventile version resides in my collection. That's as close as I've come to finding one.

A photo would be nice whether you wear it or not

Dave

 

[H.Johnson]

Dave,

You ate not alone. I wear Ventile(R) and ventile-like fabrics on a regular basis (and make clothing from the stuff). I just don't do photographs.

I get the feeling that , judging by the complete lack of other peoples' photos of their own ventile garments, that I'm the only person in the world who is actually using ventile !!

Cheers,
Dave