Unpopular music opinions

[Fletch]

American Pop Culture criticcism can trace its roots at ,east as far back as Sigmund Spaeth, Deems Taylor, and Carl Van Vechten, can it not?

It was pretty rarefied as yet, tho. They reviewed Gershwin and Whiteman and Bessie Smith, not hotel bands or foxtrot records.

 

[Fletch]

Thats what I though she said, but what she's really saying is the stratification of society by cultural critics actually has little to do with the homogenization of musical styles as they have changed within the sociometric paramaters of our culture? Oh....WHY DIDN'T SHE JUST SAY SO...

Our Liz is not a native speaker of gobbledegook, so you'll forgive her the occasional imprecision in its use.

 

[S_M_Cumberworth]

lol lol lol Psychodelic nickelodeon music. lol lol You are kidding right? It sounds like something they used to play for chase scenes during the silent Keystone Cops movies.

Much more enjoyable too. Oh and:laser::hippie: Got the filthy hippie.

If you think 'Martha My Dear' is psychedelic, then I have no idea what you'd call something like, say, The West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band. :\

But I do like how you ignore any nuances of composition. It bears only a superficial, stylistic resemblance to the music you provided, and that resemblance was intentional. By that estimation, the following two pieces might as well be indistinguishable from each other:

[video=youtube;Kpqm1hxgH-w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kpqm1hxgH-w[/video]

[video=youtube;RKvd4tMkFHc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKvd4tMkFHc[/video]

To be fair, though, your seemingly wholesale disregard of all music of this particular time period looks to be based on its aesthetic qualities more than anything else, and that's understandable. I mean, I won't even give a chance to certain music if it sounds a certain way. I can't stand jam bands or the current brand of Country pop. The only reason I even defend the Beatles is because they remain one of the most musically cogent pop groups of the 20th century.

With all that said, I hate Lennon's solo stuff. I also think McCartney's no good after 1977 or so.

 

[martinsantos]

Certainly.

Just got to read a book by LeRoy Jones, from 1963 (my translated version from 1967). A sociological study about negro and jazz in american society. A perfect example about Mss Lizie is talking about.

I don't know if his ideas about american society are correct; but his "dislikes" about jazz are not about music. When he put ragtime and Benny Goodman as junk it's because they would have "stollen" the negro music tradition, not about the talent and creativity of Joplin and "that rich jew guy" (HIS words, not mine. I like music, and don't give a penny about the color, religion, country, etc, of the player). Or when he puts rythm and blues in a very highter musical position than swing. This would be a "white creation stealing the blues". This make a (to me) very strange conclusion: Elvis Presley is "vastly superior and sincere" than Jo Stafford.

PS: I like sociology, but not a professional. Just like to read about. I still think old Franz Boas a genius; and his brazilian pupil, Gilberto Freyre, the best at this country. A lot of people desagree.

True, but "Cultural Studies" is a different animal from music criticism. Music critics actually criticize music for its musical and performance qualities. "Cultural Critics" really have no interest in music as music -- they're interested only in how it can be used to illustrate the decay of capitalist hegemony in a poststructuralist society. (And that's putting it more succinctly than they themselves ever will.)

 

[Yeps]

Nobody alive now knows how to write a traditional musical comedy -- Rodgers and Hammerstein pretty much killed off the frothy Cole Porter-type book shows and the George White-type revues in the fifties, and all we have now is bad Sondheim imitations, Andrew Lloyd Webber, and merchandising tie-ins for Disney properties. That's a nightmare world for anyone who really cares about the musical theatre and its legacy.

The civilization that could produce something as brilliant and sophisticated as "The Little Show" or "Three's A Crowd" has been ruthlessly killed off, and we're not a better people for it.

I really like Adam Guettel for one, along with Lippa and Jason Robert Brown, and I think that line of stage composition, which comes more or less out of Sondheim's style (who is very good, but a little over-rated) is absolutely fantastic. It is a blending of musical theatre tradition into the classical.

That said, I agree with you in general, there are not a lot of good shows on broadway. Too many rock musicals and Disney shows.


I agree that something was lost at the dominance of Rogers and Hammerstein.

I have to admit, I kinda like Webber. Guilty pleasure. Sure the guy is not original, and is mostly concerned with making money, but he knows how to write a tune, or at least how to use one stolen from Puccini. Also, his shows are generally exciting. (except Cats. Cats terrifies me.)

 

[LizzieMaine]

American Pop Culture criticcism can trace its roots at ,east as far back as Sigmund Spaeth, Deems Taylor, and Carl Van Vechten, can it not?

The big, big difference between their work and the work of the Cultural Studies crowd is that these earlier critics emphasized accessibility. Spaeth and Taylor, especially, made great efforts to make "high" art accessible and understandable to the masses -- while at the same time championing the value of popular art. They were true cultural egalitarians -- and they didn't write for an audience composed entirely of academic beard-strokers.

I think Van Vechten's main legacy is how he made fetishization of "the primitive Other" fashionable among a certain class of white literati, which can certainly be seen as a step in the direction of what underlies the modern cultural-studies movement.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Our Liz is not a native speaker of gobbledegook, so you'll forgive her the occasional imprecision in its use.

I subscribe only to the Zeppoite school of Marxism.

 

[Yeps]

and they didn't write for an audience composed entirely of academic beard-strokers.

This is the problem I see around me in music school. I have fallen into the trap a little bit too. Because the public doesn't really care about concert music, we don't pay attention to the public, just each other. This makes more and more of a disconnect, as our music gets more and more esoteric and abstract to the point of just being annoying.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Given the current trend on Broadway of musicals based on movies and TV shows, it probably won't be long before they produce one based on the film Fatal Attraction. If they do, this can be one of the songs.

Marion Harris -- He's My Secret Passion (1930)
Brunswick 6016
http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/BRUE35743.ram

I'm sure that in 1930 the lyrics didn't sound quite as creepy as they would today.

I don't know his name
Or from where he came
But I think of him
Night and day
He doesn't know me
Never seems to see
The love light in my eyes
When I look his way

I'm at my window each morning at eight
The day begins when he passes the gate
He doesn't know it but someday he will
He's my secret passion

I gaze for hours at the house where he lives
You can't imagine the thrill that it gives
I know I show it but that's how I feel
He's my secret passion

I'll try to find among my friends
One who knows him too
I'll be introduced to him by friends
If it's the last thing that I do

And at the cafe where he dines at nine
I sit and wish the cooking were mine
He doesn't know it but someday he will
He's my secret passion

 

[vitanola]

Given the current trend on Broadway of musicals based on movies and TV shows, it probably won't be long before they produce one based on the film Fatal Attraction. If they do, this can be one of the songs.

Marion Harris -- He's My Secret Passion (1930)
Brunswick 6016
http://www.jazz-on-line.com/a/ramc/BRUE35743.ram

I'm sure that in 1930 the lyrics didn't sound quite as creepy as they would today.

I don't know his name
Or from where he came
But I think of him
Night and day
He doesn't know me
Never seems to see
The love light in my eyes
When I look his way

I'm at my window each morning at eight
The day begins when he passes the gate
He doesn't know it but someday he will
He's my secret passion

I gaze for hours at the house where he lives
You can't imagine the thrill that it gives
I know I show it but that's how I feel
He's my secret passion

I'll try to find among my friends
One who knows him too
I'll be introduced to him by friends
If it's the last thing that I do

And at the cafe where he dines at nine
I sit and wish the cooking were mine
He doesn't know it but someday he will
He's my secret passion

Just about as creepy as the OTHER stalker song of the period, "I'm Following You"

"Wherever you go
whatever you do
I want you to know
I'm following you.

Whatever you climb
or tumble in to
why, all of the time
I'm following you.

The battle won't be half so hard
if you've someone to share it.

I'll gladly carry half the load,
and what's more, grin and bear it!

You're part of my heart
you know that it's true
whenever you start
I'm following you!

 

[Blackjack]

I subscribe only to the Zeppoite school of Marxism.

Funny, I subscribe to the school of Groucho Marxism...

 

[Blackjack]

Certainly.

Just got to read a book by LeRoy Jones, from 1963 (my translated version from 1967). A sociological study about negro and jazz in american society. A perfect example about Mss Lizie is talking about.

don't know if his ideas about american society are correct; but his "dislikes" about jazz are not about music. When he put ragtime and Benny Goodman as junk it's because they would have "stollen" the negro music tradition, not about the talent and creativity of Joplin and "that rich jew guy" (HIS words, not mine. I like music, and don't give a penny about the color, religion, country, etc, of the player). Or when he puts rythm and blues in a very highter musical position than swing. This would be a "white creation stealing the blues". This make a (to me) very strange conclusion: Elvis Presley is "vastly superior and sincere" than Jo Stafford.

PS: I like sociology, but not a professional. Just like to read about. I still think old Franz Boas a genius; and his brazilian pupil, Gilberto Freyre, the best at this country. A lot of people desagree.

I know exactly what Lizzie was referring to and agree. As far Mr. Jones and his pompous blowhard ilk of cronies goes, he obviously knows about as much as my dog about music...

 

[Bryce Glen]

Just sharing some of the music that I love - anyone I've showed these songs to has either loved them or hated them;


[video=youtube;9MTtV7DWcOo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MTtV7DWcOo&feature=player_embedded[/video]

[video=youtube;GjdHHMALtto]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjdHHMALtto&feature=player_embedded[/video]

[video=youtube;4hv6sQXI1WY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hv6sQXI1WY&feature=player_embedded[/video]

[video=youtube;kxfMRhyzu3g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxfMRhyzu3g&feature=player_embedded[/video]

[video=youtube;UIGsSLCoIhM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIGsSLCoIhM[/video]

[video=youtube;lqAuuIDU2sw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqAuuIDU2sw&feature=player_embedded[/video]

[video=youtube;nPGA3vjMLgE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPGA3vjMLgE[/video]


Sorry for the size of this list, it came to be double the length I intended - hopefully someone will discover something inspirational they havent heard before, or at least watch enough to be able to tell me what they hate about my taste in music =P

 

[jamespowers]

If you think 'Martha My Dear' is psychedelic, then I have no idea what you'd call something like, say, The West Coast Pop Art Experimental Band. :\

But I do like how you ignore any nuances of composition. It bears only a superficial, stylistic resemblance to the music you provided, and that resemblance was intentional.
To be fair, though, your seemingly wholesale disregard of all music of this particular time period looks to be based on its aesthetic qualities more than anything else, and that's understandable. I mean, I won't even give a chance to certain music if it sounds a certain way. I can't stand jam bands or the current brand of Country pop. The only reason I even defend the Beatles is because they remain one of the most musically cogent pop groups of the 20th century.

With all that said, I hate Lennon's solo stuff. I also think McCartney's no good after 1977 or so.

If the resemblance was intentional then I have no idea why you would think there is any big deal nuance there. I notice how you ignored my intentional misspelling of psychodelic nuance though. lol I meant it as nuts----not drug induced. lol
I have given the Dung Beatles plenty of chances. They just never got anywhere with the time. All this arguing over a group that barely lasted seven years and of that only the first few years was anything even comprehensible or less than capricious at most. If they are cogent then Tiny Tim was the King of twentieth century pop groups.lol lol
In all reality, you are in the Fedora Lounge after all. What did you expect a group of Golden Era enthusiasts to think of the Dung Beatles in the first place? We all congragate here to listen to Beatles music---riiiiiggghhht.

 

[rue]

If they are cogent then Tiny Tim was the King of twentieth century pop groups.lol lol

Oh you know you love Tiny Tim James....
[video=youtube;skU-jBFzXl0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skU-jBFzXl0[/video]

 

[rue]

You know what is so sad though? When I was looking up Tip-toe through the Tulips I came across this:

[video=youtube;UZMHJX4b9bU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZMHJX4b9bU[/video]
I had no idea that it was a cover of a really nice song at one point. Tells you right there what that hippie generation did to songs

 

[jamespowers]

Oh you know you love Tiny Tim James....
[video=youtube;skU-jBFzXl0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skU-jBFzXl0[/video]

Pure genius! I was listening to that very song this morning. Listen to the nuance, the expert ukelele playing, that superb falsetto voice. It takes one back to the Rudy Vallee era. He remains one of the most musically cogent figures of the twentieth century.
He has on of the iconic voices of his era just like this woman:
[video=youtube;s62MrU8mHx4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s62MrU8mHx4[/video]
lol lol lol

 

[jamespowers]

You know what is so sad though? When I was looking up Tip-toe through the Tulips I came across this:

[video=youtube;UZMHJX4b9bU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZMHJX4b9bU[/video]
I had no idea that it was a cover of a really nice song at one point. Tells you right there what that hippie generation did to songs

You just realized that? lol lol lol

 

[rue]

You just realized that? lol lol lol

Hey.... that was mean

 

[jamespowers]

Hey.... that was mean

No it wasn't. I am sure you knew what the hippies did to songs.