Toppers Unite

[Charlie Huang]

Aren't toppers only to be worn with morning dress and White Tie (or as part of historical costume or part of doorman's livery)?

 

[David V]

Aren't toppers only to be worn with morning dress and White Tie (or as part of historical costume or part of doorman's livery)?

Yes.

I feel that doing otherwise is a disservice to the hat and places the outfit in the realm of costume.

 

[Johnnysan]

Oh, dear me...I committed a fashion faux pas! However will I sleep!

 

[metropd]

Aren't toppers only to be worn with morning dress and White Tie (or as part of historical costume or part of doorman's livery)?

I guess I belong in the circus.

 

[metropd]

The top hat was worn with tuxedo's and lounge suits until the early mid 30's.

 

[Johnnysan]

I feel that doing otherwise is a disservice to the hat and places the outfit in the realm of costume.

fftopic:

I would suggest that the same could be said for almost any headwear that is the subject of discussion on this forum.

Fedora wearers are scoffed at as either "Indiana Jones" or "Sam Spade" wannabes. Bowler and derby wearers are generally viewed askance by the general public. And, wearing a top hat in the states - even with white tie - is considered somewhat over-the-top and eccentric.

We seem to forget that what we so often regard as "hard and fast" sartorial rules had to be set by someone doing the thing first. To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a hat is just a hat.

I believe that the original intent of this thread was to allow those of us who own toppers to showcase them...not to delve into another tired discussion of "the rules of all things hat." If that's what you're looking for, there are many threads on the subject of hat etiquette that will both illuminate and confuse you! Here's just one of many that is now running 12 pages worth...

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=4435

Appropriate attire or not, everyone who has posted a photo in this thread looks terrific! I think I'll pay homage by donning my topper whilst in my robe and bunny slippers over this morning's tea!

...and now, back to our regularly scheduled thread.

 

[David V]

fftopic:
We seem to forget that what we so often regard as "hard and fast" sartorial rules had to be set by someone doing the thing first.

Not just any "someone" but by someone who understood and observed the "hard and fast" rules and knew who to tweak them.

The rules where developed by men of exquisite taste and a thorough knowledge of style.

Trying too hard just to break the rules can only be seen as awkward at best.

But please don't stop on my account. I've only expressed my opinion and you are welcome to discard it as you wish.

 

[Lokar]

My fiancée was at a flea market yesterday, and spotted a nice, although beaten, top hat box. She then found out there was a topper inside, and it was in my size (size 7 3/8 US)! She instantly bought it, paying 150 SEK (£12.50 / $18 US).

The bad:
The underside of the brim is filthy (I think it's mud)
The lining is paper(ish) and somewhat dull
There seems to be one or two spots where the felt has thinned on the crown

The good:
The hat fits like a glove! It's perfect!
The above mentioned thinned spots are barely noticeable, I didn't notice them until photos were taken.
The hat box has a few holes near the bottom, so some newspaper was laid inside to protect the hat - The newspaper is from 1956! Obviously somebody could have intentionally used an older newspaper to make the hat seem more vintage, but I'd imagine it very unlikely, especially considering the price it was sold for, so it seems to be somewhat old!

As you can see, the box has definitely seen better days

The hat itself (at least, the top side) seems great though. You can see on the left of the second photo, at the edge of the crown, that there's a white line where some felt has worn away a little.

Unfortunately the underside of the brim is pretty filthy. I don't know if it's common to top hats, but the felt on the underside is different to the top and the crown - It's not "shiny", and has a very different texture (and seems much more resilient).

Lastly, here's a close view of the art at the bottom of the box lid - The cherubs are holding top hats!

Overall I'm very happy with it, and it was such a steal! If anybody can offer suggestions on how to clean the felt on the underside, it would be most welcome.

 

[Lensmaster]

When all of you experienced top hat owners buy hats do you get your regular hat size or go a size smaller or a size bigger? A size 7 3/8 fedora fits me great and so I bought a top hat off Ebay in that size. It's a beautiful hat that I got for good price so I was thrilled. But it fits quite big, coming down almost to my ears. And having a very nice silk lining there is no hatband to pad to make it fit better. Besides I think it would look too big even if I could manage a better fit. So even though a top hat is not a flexible type of hat should I go a size smaller if I can find one? I'll post pictures of the hat and me wearing it as soon as I get some taken.

fftopic: David, so you're from the hometown of Emo Phillips.

 

[Charlie Huang]

What kind of topper is it? Vintage? Silk plush or felt? Maker?

You say there is no hatband. Do you mean sweat band? If so, that is why it feels a bit big. You need to get a hatter to hand-sew a sweat band on and then re-conform it if necessary.

My recent topper is in my size it it fits perfectly without need of re-conforming (though I might in the future if needs dictate).

 

[Lensmaster]

What kind of topper is it? Vintage? Silk plush or felt? Maker?

You say there is no hatband. Do you mean sweat band? If so, that is why it feels a bit big. You need to get a hatter to hand-sew a sweat band on and then re-conform it if necessary.

My recent topper is in my size it it fits perfectly without need of re-conforming (though I might in the future if needs dictate).

I don't know the maker or how old it is. Originally there was a tag inside it but that was gone by the time I got the hat. Yes I meant no sweat band. It doesn't look like it was meant to have one and I was thinking it would damage the look of the hat to add one. Here are some pictures:

This is a good picture of what the inside lining looks like:

Here are a couple pictures of me wearing it:

The hat seems to look big on my head in my view. I was thinking a size smaller would sit a little higher on my head and look more balanced with the size of my head. I welcome opinions and advice on this.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Ah.

It's not silk plush nor fur. I'm not even sure it is an opera (which would be collapsible). Looks like a modern fancy dress one IMHO (no sweatband is a big giveaway) though the person who made it knows how to make a decent looking one at least!

You should defo get a vintage silk one; probably cost the same as the one you got with good eBaying but 1000 times better!

 

[Charlie Huang]

I posted thi on the New Hat thread but it deserves a second outing here:

Cost: a mere £31!

Also today thru the post, a soft hat brush and a velvet pad to polish the topper:

This is how it came out after polishing. Comapre to the previous pics above:

 

[Lensmaster]

Ah.

It's not silk plush nor fur. I'm not even sure it is an opera (which would be collapsible). Looks like a modern fancy dress one IMHO (no sweatband is a big giveaway) though the person who made it knows how to make a decent looking one at least!

You should defo get a vintage silk one; probably cost the same as the one you got with good eBaying but 1000 times better!

Yes it is not an opera hat. It did look like a much better quality hat in the listing when it was for sale. I'm watching one that is for sale right now but is a size smaller, 7 1/4. Is it safe to go for that size or should I watch for one in my size. Most nice vintage top hats are much too small for me.

 

[Charlie Huang]

Personally, I would put all effort into getting a vintage silk plush one. I have seen a few 7 1/4 UK (7 3/8 US; go by cm to avoid confusion) size silk toppers on eBay. It might take time to get one for cheap but it is certainly worth it in the end. You have not got a topper until you get a vintage silk plush one and you will never go back afterwards! Trust me. Modern ones cannot compete.

*****

Just right now I had a breakthrough with my polishing! Just check out the progress I made.

After initial dusting off with hard bristle hat brush:

After brushing with soft bristle brush and polishing with velvet pad:

After dabbing water carefully on the nap and polishing with velvet pad:

I am amazed what a little bit of experimentation can do! Look at the vertical light reflection on the crown and see the difference in clarity and sharpness between the pictures!

Indeed, I am very pleased now.

 

[Forgotten Man]

Oh, if only I still had mine... I used to have a 30s collapsible silk topper but, I sold it due to the fact it was needed a little work and the darn thing didn't fit too well.

Ever since I've seen the 1935 RKO film:

I've wanted a good beaver one... no more collapsible toppers, I want that shine only a pure beaver topper has.

Here's one photo of me wearing my white tie and tails with the topper, some of you may have seen this but for the thread's sake and for the newer members, here's my "Top Hat" shot.

In my opinion, Top Hats are to be only worn with tails, frock coat or morning suit. In the 30s you would see them being worn with double or single breasted tuxes... I'm not a fan of that so much however it was acceptable for a short season in the mid 30s. A Top Hat is a formal hat and shouldn't be worn daily.

 

[irb]

In my opinion, Top Hats are to be only worn with tails, frock coat or morning suit. In the 30s you would see them being worn with double or single breasted tuxes... I'm not a fan of that so much however it was acceptable for a short season in the mid 30s. A Top Hat is a formal hat and shouldn't be worn daily.

I would certainly agree, though people are free to do as they like. For myself, and hoping that I'm not verging into OffTopia here, I also mourn the loss of events to which one would be expected to dress that well; but I'll stop there, as I feel a rant coming on. *grin*

 

[Forgotten Man]

At one time there were all sorts of top hats to be worn as was the fashion for most of the 19th Century. Different colors and such made it possible to wear a top hat daily. As the 20th Century came along, top hats fell mostly into use with dinner clothes and tails. The black silk or beaver topper was soon the only style you'd see through out the first part of the century and vastly vanishing into the 50s. The art of making a quality top hat has been almost completely lost. I believe Loch and Co. in England used to make toppers but, only refurbish old ones now. I could be wrong but I believe that's something I read on here in the earlier days of the Lounge.

The lack of events to dress to the nines is rather upsetting. However, here in LA we have Cicada Club and most of the big nights there are a lot of tails coming out to play.... I wore my tails and borrowed a friends 30s top hat since I got rid of mine. It was fun and a handful of my other buddies wore their tails too... it was like something out of an old movie. I say, anyone living in a part of this green earth that can't seem to find a place to wear their tails, or other formal clothes, just dress up one evening take your better half out for a night on the town! Make your own event if you will... that's how I do things! Get those mothballed evening threads out for a walk!

 

[Lokar]

Regarding making top hats, there are apparently no looms left in the world that can create the silk needed to make a silk top hat (and that is why even royalty buy refurbished toppers, rather than new).

 

[Tiller]

Regarding making top hats, there are apparently no looms left in the world that can create the silk needed to make a silk top hat (and that is why even royalty buy refurbished toppers, rather than new).

There is a possible business opportunity of an entrepreneurial engineer.

A Top Hat is a formal hat and shouldn't be worn daily.

Is that so? On Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes, Holmes's wears a top hat often, and not only as formal wear. Sometimes he'd be wearing it just to walk down the street, or to track down someone. Sometimes first thing in the morning after pondering a mystery well smoking black shag tobacco in his long Churchwarden cherry wood, pipe. Holmes also wore a black homburg often, and a deerstalker when out in the country.

Watson wore one as well when he wasn't wearing his gray bowler, again not always during "formal" events.