Thoughts about Japanese brands

[red devil]

These thoughts are mainly in terms of outerwear, but they actually apply to many other products as well.

It is really fascinating to see how Japan does not leave many people indifferent. When you look at the major Japanese brands and the reactions, you cannot help but notice the polarising effects on people.

In one camp you have the "worshippers", for them "Made in Japan" carries an images of superior craftsmanship, almost inhuman in its precision and attention to details. So products made in Japan are intrinsically superior to anything out there.

In the other camp, you have the "detractors", and these have different motivations. Some of them just don't like the elitist attitude of the "worshippers". Others feel that their chosen product is a better deal one way or another. And finally some people are simply chauvinistic and think that "Made in [insert country name here]"is the best in the world. They will generally use different tactics to disparage Japanese brands, from calling it overrated, overpriced to coming up with weak point (real or imagined).

I personally like Japan for everything it has to offer, but I do get annoyed at both extremists in both camps. I don't like someone extolling the virtues of the "Made in Japan" without having any clue as to why said products are good. And I also dislike people finding any excuse to disparage them as well.

If you have been to Japan, you would have likely realised that there is a high standard maintained everywhere. Public transport for example is arguably the best in the world, I have never seen anywhere with such timeliness and efficiency. I won't try any comparison here

And this translates to goods made in Japan, they tend to be pretty well made on average. Not always the best in the worlds, but in some categories most definitely.

One thing is clear is that if your products have such an effect on consumers, you are on to something

So what are your thoughts on the matter?

 

[dannyk]

The Japanese stuff in general is great. But getting here in the States you’re either paying for huge markups from the few distributors or paying huge shipping costs. I think that plays a huge role to a lot of us here states-side that is. There are clearly quality makers here in the US like Langlitz, Vanson, Lost Worlds even throw in Schott. And then Aero in the UK. All that have a less severe mark up for us. So I think a lot of what you see isn’t necessarily I covet and obsesses over made in Japan or the negative I’m mentioning where it’s like so what we have good stuff too? It’s more the cost-benefit rationale. There’s no proof what so ever their stuff is better. But let’s pretend that’s true. Let’s say japan is 100% quality and another maker is 90% quality, but to get the Japanese you have to pay 145%. There’s nothing to that for us.

 

[ton312]

I've owned and own a few items from Japanese makers. Lost Hills and Full Count Beach cloth jackets, RMC railcoat. All very well made. Really impressive quality, marvelous fits...However, I do not subscribe to the notion that "Made in Japan" somehow equates to a tier of quality that makers from other geographical locations cannot attain. It's simply not true. I think you'd agree as you've had the luxury of handling a great deal of very nice outerwear pieces from a variety of makers across the globe. I'm not a fan of some of the elitist mentality that seems to be somewhat consistent with certain Japanese brand fanatics. I suppose it's not exclusive to them however as I myself have been guilty of the same behavior. Let's not forget that the Japanese outerwear/vintage Americana obsession is somewhat in it's infancy. It was not that long ago that the only "leather" jacket you could get from Japan was actually made of vinyl and carried a SUDCO label.

 

[jeo]

I don’t necessarily see this polarization you speak of, at least not with regards to Japanese brands specifically. Maybe I don’t go on enough forums anymore. Maybe you can direct me to some discussions where there was sharp division of opinions, I would like to read them. The polarization I do see however is usually when it comes to expensive brands in general. The last discussion on TFL I noticed when it came to this subject was the “is Himel worth it” discussion.


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[Colin G]

I just ordered myself a nice Red Moon wallet direct. Shipping was only $30 CAD. The wallet is cheaper than any fancy Mont Blanc, LV or Fuare Le Page wallet and nicer in my opinion.

Price was fine and shipping acceptable. I am happy.

This is my fits Japan-type leather item so we'll have to see. As far as jackets I'd have to see in the flesh before I'd commit unlike a blind wallet purchase.

 

[Bigbenbs]

It reminds me a bit of the food culture in Europe vs US. You can get equally great food in the US and in Europe, but it's a lot easier to get crap in the US. This makes it reasonable to say that Europe has better food, but only if your talking about averages, not about peaks.

 

[Mich486]

They started this repro/workwear trend back in the 90’s so they do have lots of brands. In the west it’s a much more recent thing and still very niche from what I can gather. In fact I would say it’s a web driven phenomenon.

The quality from the Japanese brands I’ve handled is generally pretty good.

To me it boils down to them having a time advantage in this niche plus the tendency to obsess about every little detail when reproducing stuff which is not part of western culture typically. They do also have old machinery that allows to replicate period correct fabrics which are not found anywhere else.

Honestly if this stuff would be produced in Europe for me it would be much better as buying from Japan means import charges and returns aren’t accepted generally. I don’t care for the made in Japan in itself but it just so happens that much clothing I like lately is made there. There are also many good workwear brands in Europe and the us of course but i think it’s hard not liking Japanese stuff around here.






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[ton312]

obsess about every little detail

Yes there is a strong tendency toward fetish.

 

[tmitchell59]

The only issue I have with Japanese leather jackets is finding a size 42/44.

Their offerings in civilian jacket style is staggering.

 

[Monitor]

I don't get people who will whine about one import while praising other to heaven. And there seems to be abundance of such people in the "Japanese worshipers" camp.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I look at it this way. I don't care where a leather jacket is made as long as I can pick a hide that suits my fancy, nice lining and have it expertly custom sized for a decent price. Much over a grand is not my idea of decent even though I could afford it. I just don't value the differences that seems to pump up the price approaching two grand and more.
HD

 

[steve u]

My Wife's Japanese, Kid's Half.....Been there many times.
Guess you know what "camp" I'm in. steve

 

[navetsea]

I don't have any made in japan clothes to comment
while I worship Pentel as the best mechanical pencil manufacturer.
the last playstation I have was a disaster from the start.

I find it interesting people see japan made denim and jacket as top quality while they are made by small companies and relatively unknown, yet YKK zipper doesn't get much love while they are probably the biggest zipper manufacturer in the world.
so I think people just like rare item that other people never heard of and spending more money on it give assurance of quality, but then we would never test the quality of this expensive object because we pay too much to possibly ruin it, so we have cheaper alternative as substitute, and this cheap object seems to last forever however it can not be better build than the expensive one because it is impossible since we pay so little compared to the other one and since it has ykk zipper on it.
to some degree we all feel that way.

 

[ton312]

I don't have any made in japan clothes to comment
while I worship Pentel as the best mechanical pencil manufacturer.
the last playstation I have was a disaster from the start.

I find it interesting people see japan made denim and jacket as top quality while they are made by small companies and relatively unknown, yet YKK zipper doesn't get much love while they are probably the biggest zipper manufacturer in the world.
so I think people just like rare item that other people never heard of and spending more money on it give assurance of quality, but then we would never test the quality of this expensive object because we pay too much to possibly ruin it, so we have cheaper alternative as substitute, and this cheap object seems to last forever however it can not be better build than the expensive one because it is impossible since we pay so little compared to the other one and since it has ykk zipper on it.
to some degree we all feel that way.

That's a great point about YKK, which carries a stigma as cheap, despite being the most durable and reliable zipper on the planet. My Vanson is having a fresh #10 installed as we speak. If I could snap my fingers and have my LW close with a #10 YKK I'd do it in the blink of an eye.

 

[Superfluous]

The notion that Japan produces only stellar outerwear/clothing is indisputably false. Japan produces both high quality and low quality outerwear/clothing, and everything in between. Here, we tend to focus on certain of the top quality Japanese brands. That said, there are legions of lessor quality Japanese brands. In fact, there are many, many more lower quality Japanese brands, as compared to top quality Japanese brands. Thus, anyone who “worships” all things made in Japan, and believes all Japanese clothing is superior, is ignoring reality.

Stating the obvious, the same can be said for Europe, the US, China, and many other countries that produce the full spectrum of outwear and clothing, from top flight to complete dreck.

Are there a few Japanese brands that produce extremely well made outerwear? Absolutely! IMHO, and based on my subjective criteria and experience, the best of the Japanese brands – e.g., Freewheelers – produce better quality outerwear than certain of the mainstream brands commonly discussed here (e.g., Vanson). Of course, the price points are substantially different and, as I have stated many times, we are well beyond the point of diminishing returns.

Keep in mind that, when many American clothing companies (e.g., Levis) replaced their inefficient machinery (e.g., loopwheel machines and shuttle looms) used to produce superlative quality clothing with high volume assembly line machinery, Japanese companies obsessed with US workwear bought up the majority of the “outdated,” inefficient machinery. Thus, certain Japanese companies now employ old world machinery to produce clothing that is no longer produced in the US. For example, other than Runabout Goods, I am not aware of any loopwheeled shirts produced in the US, or anywhere outside of Japan.

The foregoing only scratches the surface of how Japan emerged as a major player in the production of US workwear. That said, there is no denying that much of the highest quality workwear available today comes from Japan, and that includes some outstanding reproduction outerwear. There are also wonderful workwear brands in Europe and the US. For example, I love brands like Runabout Goods, Rogue Territory, Freenote and Filson, to name a few US workwear brands, and I own many items from these brands. However, while they make some great stuff, they are not, IMHO, as well made as Freewheelers, Stevenson Overalls, The Flat Head, The Real McCoys, or Iron Heart, to name a few top notch Japanese brands. (There are a few niche US brands that produce very, very limited runs of handmade workwear that are, IMHO, comparable to the best from Japan, but they are not readily available).

On the other hand, there are many more Japanese companies using mainstream, assembly lines to efficiently produce complete junk. This is MUCH more common that the stellar Japanese brands. Therefore, just as with US and European brands, one has to look beyond the country of origin and evaluate the quality of the individual brands.

 

[El Marro]

The only issue I have with Japanese leather jackets is finding a size 42/44.

Their offerings in civilian jacket style is staggering.

I second this point. I wear a 44 or 46, depending on the manufacturer and the style of the jacket. I find that this puts me just outside the size range of all of the Japanese jackets I have looked at, with the exception of some of the larger Buzz Rickson jackets carried by HPA.
On the one hand is kind of sucks because I would love to own something from Freewheelers or RMC. On the other hand I’m a bit relieved, because I have already spent far too much money on jackets that come from The USA and Europe.

 

[nick123]

I don't know...out of all of the jackets I've envied, for some reason the Buzz/McCoys get me the most excited. Something about the color hues. Just nice looking leather.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I don't know..but I am leaning heavily Greek, so much so that I can barely contain myself. Sorry that I changed the subject....

 

[Superfluous]

I don't know..but I am leaning heavily Greek, so much so that I can barely contain myself. Sorry that I changed the subject....

Too much information!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Thedi say to much Superfluous..??