This generation of kids...

[AmateisGal]

I've published a book, held numerous responsible jobs in the media, am considered an authority in my field, have been a professional writer for 25 years, and never went to college. I've *accomplished* a lot without a degree. But I earn about $30 grand a year, because the things I'm good at and care about are not valued by the culture.

So, there's the dilemma. If you want to earn the big bucks and have the big house and have the trophy family and the trophy friends, well, in this day and age, you aren't going to do it on a high school diploma. But it's possible to be perfectly contented with your life without a college degree. It's a question of where your priorities lie.

I completely agree with you, Lizzie. The challenge for me, as a parent, will be to show my daughter that you don't need a big house or a big car or lots of money in the bank to be happy (heck, we live paycheck to paycheck even now). And since her generation is saturated with all of these things, oh boy, is it ever going to be a challenge.

 

[JimWagner]

I'm going to agree that it certainly seems like more people than ever today have let their illusions rule their lives, but it's certainly not a new phenomenon.

The pervasiveness of tv and its constant assault on our pocketbooks is a big part of it, but previous generations were just as apt to get all wrapped in illusions. Movies, magazines, novels and such made sure of that. How many of you older FL'ers had mothers who constantly read Redbook and Good Housekeeping and tried to make their own family lives modeled after them? How many of you had sisters (or were sisters) who were deeply influenced by teen and movie magazines and movies?

Maybe the fact that almost all of us were brought up in a more prosperous time and accordingly had more idle time and disposable income contributed to the vulnerability to the illusory world of materialism.

 

[LizzieMaine]

That's where the question of "traditional (or, Golden Era) values" comes in. Today's generation has a twisted sense of what that phrase means because of how it's been co-opted since the '80s, but the basic concepts of honesty, humility, kindness, thrift, and common sense are just as valid now as they were decades ago. It's more necessary now than ever for parents to teach those concepts to their kids, because they certainly aren't going to learn them from the culture. If they're taught those things from earliest childhood, there's a pretty good chance that, when it comes time for them to make their own decisions in life, they'll make the right ones.

My grandmother took McCalls and Redbook, but just for the coupons. We never had anything resembling idealized middle-class aspirations. All we wanted out of life was a decent meal on the table, a roof over our heads, and to live long enough to see the Red Sox win it all. I've managed to achieve all of those.

 

[1961MJS]

...My daughter doesn't do the best in school. However, she is an immensely talented artist. I already have her with a private art tutor. Even though she will only be 11 this year, I'm already wondering about college - ...

Hi

Based on my limited dealings with artists (I'm an engineer) in college, I would send you daughter to college. I would let your daughter learn whatever art she wants to, but I would NOT recommend art as a major for two reasons. The first is obvious, no money in an art degree. The second is less obvious. From what I saw of the University of Illinois art departments (Art, Architecture, and Music), you are taught what the class professor knows or is interested in, not what you as an artist are interested in. You will be graded on your knowledge (O.K.) and you aptitude in duplicating art that the professor likes, not what you can sell, and / or not what you LIKE. It's like a craft brewmaster getting his Chemical Engineering degree or Dietitian's degree, it's helpful, but isn't what you're interested in... Getting an art degree might just suck the life right out of her so to speak.

Hope this helps.

 

[AmateisGal]

Hi

Based on my limited dealings with artists (I'm an engineer) in college, I would send you daughter to college. I would let your daughter learn whatever art she wants to, but I would NOT recommend art as a major for two reasons. The first is obvious, no money in an art degree. The second is less obvious. From what I saw of the University of Illinois art departments (Art, Architecture, and Music), you are taught what the class professor knows or is interested in, not what you as an artist are interested in. You will be graded on your knowledge (O.K.) and you aptitude in duplicating art that the professor likes, not what you can sell, and / or not what you LIKE. It's like a craft brewmaster getting his Chemical Engineering degree or Dietitian's degree, it's helpful, but isn't what you're interested in... Getting an art degree might just suck the life right out of her so to speak.

Hope this helps.

Mike - Thanks for your thoughts. I know virtually nothing about art schools at this point and I'm glad for your insight. She is also really big into animals - she wants to save the tigers - so zoology may be something she is interested in, too. Guess we'll see what develops in the next few years!

 

[Derek WC]

Lizzie, regarding what you have said earlier, something to the tune of feeling sorry for children now days for their 'need' for perfection: I have been wondering, do you pity me?

I do not strive for perfection in most things, but to do the best that I know I can, and give it 110%, and not 500% like most kids do. While being a perfectionist can be good, most get burned out. I am failing a couple of my classes, namely mathematics and science, but I try my hardest and feel it useless to try harder than I know my ability will take me, yet I am excelling in wood shop and metal shop. One thing that really bugs me is how this perfectionism has gotten to our school system: I failed freshmen phy. ed. due to my having asthma and being more than stout, but I can guarantee you, I tried harder than everybody else in there.

Another thing I've noticed, is that either children are perfectionists or ne'er do wells, rarely the median.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Another thing I've noticed, is that either children are perfectionists or ne'er do wells, rarely the median.

And there, exactly, is the problem. "If I can't be the best, why even try? If I can't always win, why even try? If I can't dominate, why even try?"

The lesson every kid ought to learn from the moment they're out of diapers is "You won't always win. You won't always dominate. You won't always be the best. And that doesn't make you a loser, a failure, a nobody. All it makes you is human."

But that's a lesson today's culture won't teach them.

 

[rue]

Everyone gets a ribbon and everyone wins now in elementary school games. It's repulsive.
Being picked last may not have been fun at the time, but it gave me character and it made me try harder.
Kids just have to show up now and they're praised.

 

[Derek WC]

If everybody wins, nobody wins. I'd much rather have full glory (Of course, for God), than simply hollow, meaningless victory over nobody for doing nothing.

Throughout my childhood I have been raised to be a spoiled brat, which I sadly admit, I am. However since getting to like the good old days I've stopped expecting my mother to get me whatever I want, and to work for it. Sadly my siblings do not realize that not everything can go their way, and are sucking the money out of our living expenses.

I apologize for the rant.

Reading your previous post a little more, Lizzie: A healthy dose of optimism and a reality check is what people today need more than ever.
How to get/give it to them is the ultimate question though.

 

[LizzieMaine]

But what happens when you *don't* win? Because most of the time, you won't -- it's just the basic rule of life. Even a good ballplayer only gets a hit three times out of ten.

Most kids won't graduate at the top of their class, no matter how hard they try. Most kids won't even come in second or third. The vast majority of kids will make up the middle of the pack -- and there should be no stigma attached to that. Because if there is, all we're going to end up with is a generation of self-absorbed neurotics who can't accept their own fallibility. I can't see how that would in any way be a good thing.

 

[Derek WC]

When you don't win, all you need to do is suck it up. My grandmother's never won the lottery, but she buys tickets all the time. I recently did not win a contest on the Art of Manliness for a pair of boots. All I said to myself was "Well, shucks", and that was it.

I understand how somebody might be frustrated if it was their lives work, but there's no sense dwelling on your short comes: it just makes life miserable, and kids don't realize that. Than they fall into depression and Lord knows what happens to them.

Perfection does not come from expecting it, it comes from practice, and even then perfection only comes when you see the Lord.

 

[Tiller]

When you don't win, all you need to do is suck it up. My grandmother's never won the lottery, but she buys tickets all the time. I recently did not win a contest on the Art of Manliness for a pair of boots. All I said to myself was "Well, shucks", and that was it.

You mean your personality didn't shatter? Are you sure your aren't borderline suicidal?

 

[Derek WC]

I think I've got a pretty good hold of my psyche than most.
I really wanted that pair of boots because mine are falling apart, but I can just go out and buy some for a hundred smackers. The only thing that's hurting is my wallet.

Another thing that helps this self absorbed culture become more so is the convenience store of the internet, aka. instant gratification.

 

[W4ASZ]

This whole line of discussion is undermining my self-esteem.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

There's so much stigma attached to being an 'Average Joe', which I don't understand. Most of our parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. were average folks. I by no means have a glamorous life. I work a second shift job at a factory, it's a good living, union job, with good benefits. Am I going to be on the cover of Forbes magazine? No. Do I have a three car garage on my 4 bedroom home out in the suburbs with a new Cadillac? I wish! But this is the real world and especially with the economy the way it is, you gotta be happy with what you got and make the most of it and realize that glory isn't everything.

 

[Pompidou]

There's so much stigma attached to being an 'Average Joe', which I don't understand. Most of our parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc. were average folks. I by no means have a glamorous life. I work a second shift job at a factory, it's a good living, union job, with good benefits. Am I going to be on the cover of Forbes magazine? No. Do I have a three car garage on my 4 bedroom home out in the suburbs with a new Cadillac? I wish! But this is the real world and especially with the economy the way it is, you gotta be happy with what you got and make the most of it and realize that glory isn't everything.

I think of it like this: Let's say you and I are each holding a line taut, like a clothes line. Hang a weight over the middle of it. No matter how hard we pull, the line will never be straight. If we want to get that weight to a certain height, say, over 5 feet, that means we've got to strive, raising our hands, to about 5.5 feet. If you're content to shoot for average Joe status, you'll end up less. I always shoot for more than I'm willing to settle for. Life is like a bargaining table. I want a Mini Cooper and a log cabin with a small family out of life, and I want to fund it with a business I create myself. If I don't aim for luxury and a Fortune 500 corporation, I'll probably end up in an apartment with a beater and no family of my own. Average Joe is okay, but don't aim for it, lest you end up short of it.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I completely agree with you, that you should aim for better. I'm working at the plant trying to save money to go to college. I'd love to be a Psychiatrist. Times are tough though, just to get by, let alone save for college. My point being, I'd love to be the guy with the new Cadillac, and the ranch house with the attached garage out in the 'burbs and making the big bucks. However, there is nothing wrong at all with being the guy behind the scenes keeping this country a well-oiled machine.

 

[W4ASZ]

In the real world, I dress a bit like Batman and gaze down sternly upon Our Troubled Youth. I never tell any of these kids that "If you believe it, you can achieve it," or any such nonsense. I will tell them that if they work hard they can surprise themselves, and please their mamas.

I figure self-esteem is earned, not bestowed on kids. The worst thing we do is to fail to challenge them. Alas, a large percentage do not respond.

 

[shazzabanazza]

My daughter just barely went back to school on Monday (she's 7) & already has a 4 day weekend for Labor Day! Apparently, a 3 day weekend isn't good enough? Idk, I'm just feeling frustrated & disappointed with how things are going for this generation of kids and I feel like they today get waaaay to much time off and way to much slack. Seriously, not a month goes by that they don't have at least an extra day off for whatever reason. Example: a whole week off for Thanksgiving? When I went to school we only got a long weekend! They're coddled & spoiled. I see it every day! They don't know what hard work is, nor do a lot of adults for that matter. Give me the people from the WW2 generation...they knew what it was to sacrifice and work hard! Granted, it was a tough time to live but at least it built character and made them appreciate what they had! I hope I don't offend...these are just my observations....

ETA: I'm not saying my generation is/was perfect but we didn't have all this instant gratification that kids today do. Technology is wonderful and a downfall at the same time.

Wowza, a 3 day weekend! What the heck! Here in NZ its a 2 day weekend. We dont celebrate thanksgiving here in NZ but Id have to agree that a week off for it is just rediculous! Im not sure how your school system works in America. We have 4 terms per year. Each term is ten weeks then the kids get 2 weeks holiday between each term. I think this system is quite good

 

[Puzzicato]

The lesson every kid ought to learn from the moment they're out of diapers is "You won't always win. You won't always dominate. You won't always be the best. And that doesn't make you a loser, a failure, a nobody. All it makes you is human."

But that's a lesson today's culture won't teach them.

I remember my mother sitting me down at one point (I think I was about 10 or 12) and saying "You've always been the smartest, and this has made you lazy. You are going to fall pretty hard if you don't realise that you can't just coast on being the smartest, you have to work hard to make the most of it. And there will always be people smarter than you". A very useful life lesson!