This generation of kids...

[John in Covina]

To be the devil's advocate for a bit? You're out of tempo. People today who are nice and social don't wait for time to be together physically and share intimately. They're too in touch with the tempo of the lives people generally lead. They would no sooner think of asking their their friends to give up FB or texting than asking them to paint their heads blue and meet in a hollow tree at the full moon.

That - ironically - is part of being nice and social in any era. You make allowances for a lot of dumb mindless stuff because it is kinder to accept others' lifestyles for what they are and go along. Not to mention that it makes others more open to you.

The back lash is not against cell phones but the substitution of phones and texting for a social life. The cell phone can complement being with others but it can't really replace being with others. People seem to have a convenience addiction with cell phones and it leads to a lot of wasted time. Every place I work at I see so many people on their cell phones and not working.

 

[Puzzicato]

I really have no idea why anyone would want to stay 17 forever. Can you imagine being stuck in high school living with your parents for eternity? You can't drink, you can't smoke, and you have no privacy. Constant acne and awkwardness. That is my nightmare.

Either these people lived some pretty glamour-filled teen years, or they are warped in the head.

I had excellent skin, good friends and did well at school, but I was still uncomfortable in my skin and very unhappy. If the high point of your life is being 17, what on earth is the point of the ensuing 70 years.

I was seventeen once and I wasn't any good at it.

I wouldn't mind being 32 forever, though. All of the adult responsibilities and privileges, and none of the presbyopia. And I still had a 27 inch waist.

32 was great. I'd learned to talk back to plumbers and not get ripped off by mechanics. My figure was a shape that suited me and I had enough money to make the rent and have a bit of fun, and I was recently married to a nice man.

 

[Undertow]

...They would no sooner ask their friends to give up FB or texting than to paint their heads blue and meet at the full moon...

lol well, I guess I'll be crossing that off my to-do list now!

...That - ironically - is part of being nice and social in any era. You make allowances for a lot of dumb mindless stuff because it is kinder to accept others' lifestyles for what they are and go along. Not to mention that it makes others more open to you, and usually, easier to keep close to (even tho that closeness has a limit).

Yes, you're quite right. Unfortunately, I'm the guy that lives under a rock; the one who's "Not with it", or "square", and not so much by personality as socially. And mind you, I don't eschew FB or cell phones just for the sake of itself, so much as I can't stand them. But as you've said, it's a norm of society and to fight it makes me abnormal. [huh]

I have to agree with John, too, as my main concern was with the "substitution of phones and texting for a social life". And to go along with what you're saying Fletch, it appears that current "normal society" deems interacting via computer and phone sufficient.

What kind of implications does this have for modern society? I believe this is accelerating our downfall as a society and as a species. One might argue that this is, in fact, accelerating our evolution but if that be the case one must concede that the evolution is inherently reliant on electronics and money (to pay for service, or afford these units).

Yes, humanity is evolving as a result of computers and rapidly improving technology, but at what point will natural human interaction become vestigial? Or what should happen if we lost our ability to support these electronics, either financially or due to some catastrophe? Wouldn't that then plunge us back decades into chaos? Is that, then, a very good indicator of evolution?

If there were an utter collapse of society and electronic interaction were impossible, I would argue that human beings currently would cope. But should we continue down this path of degradation, aren't we killing ourselves off, just a little? And wouldn't a sane person, such as myself, be repulsed by that?

lol sorry for the rant, but there you have it!

 

[John in Covina]

I was wondering about what type of influence does organized groups have on this generation. I don't know about today's generation. Did they join organizations or high school clubs and did it mean much in the shaping of their lives as young adults?

 

[Feraud]

Good question John.
My son (just turned 17) is an altar server in our church, a Boy Scout, and belongs to the Irish Club at his high school.
I'd be curious to know if other Loungers' children are involved in such groups.

 

[Derek WC]

It just concerns me deeply, these are the people that will be running this country someday.

Phrase of the century!

 

[Fletch]

Yes, humanity is evolving as a result of computers and rapidly improving technology, but at what point will natural human interaction become vestigial? Or what should happen if we lost our ability to support these electronics, either financially or due to some catastrophe? Wouldn't that then plunge us back decades into chaos? Is that, then, a very good indicator of evolution?

If there were an utter collapse of society and electronic interaction were impossible, I would argue that human beings currently would cope. But should we continue down this path of degradation, aren't we killing ourselves off, just a little? And wouldn't a sane person, such as myself, be repulsed by that?

sorry for the rant, but there you have it!

You and I seriously need to call a conclave. Pick a venue in greater DSM with a hat rack and some decent brew and we'll address these issues in earnest.

It'll have to wait till after my orals up here at Ames (mid-April), but PM me.

 

[Yeps]

I was wondering about what type of influence does organized groups have on this generation. I don't know about today's generation. Did they join organizations or high school clubs and did it mean much in the shaping of their lives as young adults?

Well, having recently undergone the transition from "youth" to "young adult" (I am 21 now) I would say that my involvement in the Boy Scouts has definitely shaped who I am, aside from just being a very fun thing to do. The discipline and work ethic I learned in attaining Eagle has been very helpful in becoming who I am.
As to other groups, I was never a part of them outside of music and theatre, and now I am pursuing a career in opera, so I guess they were pretty influential too.

Well, I guess there was also youth group at church, and that was just a nice way to socialize without being a part of all the mess that many high schoolers are involved in. If only I could find a similar thing now, in college.

 

[MisterGrey]

I was a Boy Scout for all of two years. Well, Cub Scout (2nd and 3rd grade). The Den Leader's son enjoyed kicking me in the testicles when adults weren't looking, which everyone else got a real laugh out of. He's the same reason I didn't get into saxophone in fourth grade when the chance to play in band opened up; most practices were conducted according to instrument or small groups of instruments and mom didn't want me back in that position, and guess who was first in line to sign up for sax?

Those were really formative experiences and I didn't really get involved in group activities again until high school. I was on yearbook staff, the secretary for the Creative Writing club Sophomore year, and lead defense counsel for my high school's mock trial team. We made it to... quarter finals, I think it was? It was a real blast. I initially signed up for it Junior year, but the program got taken over by a real hardcore, "Your life belongs to me now" type of guy, and I just didn't need that. The teacher who ran it Sophomore year took it very seriously but she also realized that the students who'd signed up for it did so because they thought that it was fun, a concept this guy just did not get-- he'd cultivated a stable of loyal, similarly hardcore students who were donated every ounce of free time they had to the program. I'm sure many of them went on to successful careers in the legal field, but they're probably not the kind of people I'd want to socialize with, if they even socialize with anyone.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I was in SkillsUSA which was for shop-kids. and in FFA and FBLA. I was involved in a lot of Shop, Agriculture, and Business Ed classes.

 

[MisterGrey]

I was seventeen once and I wasn't any good at it.

I wouldn't mind being 32 forever, though. All of the adult responsibilities and privileges, and none of the presbyopia. And I still had a 27 inch waist.

I was 18/19 once and not very good at it either, which is a shame in retrospect because I had a lot of really great things going for me that I didn't realize at the time. I was 125 pounds heavier and incredibly out of shape, but I also had a job I loved, a paid-for car (a castoff when dad retired and he and mom only needed one vehicle), all of my friends lived nearby and had similar work schedules, I was dating an older woman (four years! For an 18 year old, it was like winning the World Series), and though I only had a GED, my ACT scores were good enough that getting into college was not going to be a problem.

And I pretty much managed to ruin everything above listed by being a completely oblivious nitwit who took all of the things in his life for granted and single-handedly dismantled almost every one of his interpersonal relationships through said obliviousness, sometimes in incredibly painful and hurtful ways. Not that I physically harmed anyone, but I was so clueless as to how to be a good friend/boyfriend, yet so assured of myself that I was the perfect friend/boyfriend, that I was a completely emotionally neglectful twerp and absolute coward, and didn't even realize it until I was, literally, living in the middle of nowhere with no one.

I'd like to say that I'm a better person for having moved beyond the person I was then, but the subsequent realization of what I'd done-- worse, what I failed to do, when people needed me-- was probably the second most painful experience of my life, and even seven years later it's still something that haunts me.

 

[Derek WC]

Hey, Tom. They have SkillsUSA, FFA, and FBLA at my school. I have yet to sign up for any of them though. next school year will be my third year of metal shop (I'll be a junior).

 

[AtomicEraTom]

They are all excellent programs and I think you'd enjoy them. The competitions are a lot of fun.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There's a highly cogent essay by Neal Gabler in today's Boston Globe that absolutely nails my own view on a lot of what's wrong with the culture today's kids are being force-fed -- it's a culture, not just of entitlement, but of *absolute* entitlement. The middle-class American Dream has been corrupted into the belief that it's not enough just to *have,* what you have has to be *perfect.* Gabler pinpoints these values as really taking hold in the '80s:

It is difficult to say whether the overstuffed 1980s fed this attitude or this attitude fed the 1980s, but whichever it was, success was redefined from personal satisfaction to public vindication. There was a great national competition in which many Americans felt they had to prove their value to everyone else. And the best measure of that value was not just wealth or a glowing career or a trophy wife or a beautiful family. It was all of it. If anything, that competition has only intensified since.

Thus not only have the terms of success changed but also the very terms of life. For a person who can live within his illusions, the career has to be perfect, the wife has to be perfect, the children have to be perfect, the home has to be perfect, the car has to be perfect, the social circle has to be perfect. We agonize a lot over perfection, and we dedicate a lot of time, energy, and money to it — everything from plastic surgery to gated communities of McMansions to the professionalization of our children’s activities like soccer and baseball to pricey preschools that prepare 4-year-olds for Harvard. After all, we are all on the Ivy League track now.

Or else. And that’s another thing that a perfectionist society has engendered. It has removed failure as an option because we realize that there are no second chances, that mistakes are usually irrevocable, and that you have to assume there are other people out there — your competition! — whose wives will always be beautifully coiffed and dressed or whose husbands will be power brokers, whose children will score 2,400 on their SATs and who will be playing competitive-level tennis, whose careers will be skyrocketing, whose fortunes will be growing. In a world in which perfection is expected, you must be perfect. Otherwise you are second rate.

I couldn't have said it better myself. *This* is why I repudiate modern culture and modern values. *This* is what's wrong with our society today -- the forced, maniacal pursuit of a lie. Too much will never be enough -- and I honestly pity the kids who grow up having these values crammed down their necks.

 

[John in Covina]

There is an amazing great divide as to the aspirations of parents for their children out this way. I know few if any parents that have their children on an Ivy League fast track. Those parents live in the wealthy communities and that is only a small portion of the people that get up and go to work or school every day.

 

[Feraud]

An excellent article. Thanks for posting it.
When I read about the lawsuit noted at the beginning of the article I shook my head at the absolute absurdity of it. Imaging the bubble one must live in to even consider such a suit.

 

[Fletch]

The perfect is the enemy of the good.
-Voltaire, Dictionnaire philosophique, 1764

First prize is a Cadillac El Dorado. Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired. Get the picture? You laughing now?
-David Mamet, Glengarry Glen Ross, 1992

 

[John in Covina]

The lawsuit portion made me wonder about this:

Do many modern parents not "parent" their children but rely on others and institutions to parent their children?

 

[John in Covina]

Today we seem to see polar opposites in play where in some areas the competition is so ruthless that cruelty is common place tool to weed out the imperfect and in other areas enabling is taken to an absurd degree and in the end is actually cruel.

 

[Fletch]

All right John - are you hinting that out and out cruelty is actually less cruel?
Is it necessary?
Ought it to be tolerated?