The ultimative Denim Trouser Thread?

[handymike]

I just received my Wrangler 13MWZ Rigid...I had to size up 1 size from Levis (33 instead of 32). I just measured them (unwashed) and they are exactly the same as my trusty 505s! What I really like is that they have a clean outer seam when the cuffs are turned up. The Levis rough outer seam bothers me a bit.

 

[Sonero]

I just received my Wrangler 13MWZ Rigid...I had to size up 1 size from Levis (33 instead of 32). I just measured them (unwashed) and they are exactly the same as my trusty 505s! What I really like is that they have a clean outer seam when the cuffs are turned up. The Levis rough outer seam bothers me a bit.

Would also like to mention that Wrangler has an even slimmer model to the 13MWZ Rigid. The 936 Slim Cut Rigid. Same jeans and fabric but a slimmer fit. This is what I buy. Great Quality.

 

[CatsCan]

My height is 188cm and my weight is 74 kg

That is pretty much my size, too (aside from my momentary lockdown belly). I am very happy with Pike Brothers. I am sure there will be some shops in France that have them. I haven't tried the 1946 lumber pants, but all types of their Roamer Pants. I like all of these. They are great pants! I personally like the lose fit, I don't think they are what is described with "baggy"- just lose fitting. Beware that the back pockets are quite low.
There are Lee 101 rigid in dry selvedge both with button fronted and with zip front. These are neither slim fit nor baggy. They might be a better choice given what you like. Plus, the pockets are higher. Being in Europe you can look up cultizm.com in general and https://www.cultizm.com/de/detail/index/sArticle/17237 for the Lee 101. The new photos on their wegsite are rather dump to my liking as they now seem to fit their models with the shortest leg lengths they can to adapt to the "modern" fashion. But you can simply get them in your size with the leg length you want and look much better .

+1 for the Levis LVC - a good option, too. All of the mentioned choices are classics.

Cats

 

[CatsCan]

Iron Heart....right from the start.

you are very close in putting me up to try one myself.

 

[Sonero]

Pike Brothers. I am sure there will be some shops in France that have them. I haven't tried the 1946 lumber pants, but all types of their Roamer Pants. I like all of these.

I have the Roamer Pants in elephant skin. They are a little wide at the hips but not as much as 501 jeans are on me. I would definitely be interested in their 23oz denim version. Something that turns me off about PB jeans though is the bright yellow thread used. Hoping that is just how they photograph and not the actual color ? It looks off to me.

 

[CatsCan]

Something that turns me off about PB jeans though is the bright yellow thread used. Hoping that is just how they photograph and not the actual color ?

The threads on mine are between yellow and orange colorwise but don't look bright imo.

 

[CatsCan]

I can't come over the fact, that the user name "Kermit" was still availlable and no one came to this idea in all those years! Congrats!

Cats

 

[Peckinpah]

There are many fans of the Wrangler Cowboy cut.

Over the last three years I've been buying more Wrangler denims. Always worn Levi's 501's but my Wrangler denims look and fit so much better, feel really comfortable, as well.

I'm curious about the Cowboy cut, I don't think we get them here? At least not on the Wrangler UK website. The ones I tend to go between are the Texas and Arizona cuts and for me the Arizona ones are perfect, sometimes find the Texas cut sits a little too high over my boots and buying a longer length means they sit too low.

I found a pair of the Wrangler Cowboy cut on eBay, would it be safe to go for the same sizing as my Arizona cut denims? I see they give the option to go up an inch with regards to the length.

 

[GHT]

While you are still figuring out what you are looking for, Levi’s 501 shrink to fit can be a good starter to learn on.

Back in my youth, playing team sports, I could always tell if one of the players had bought himself a pair of 501's. Sometimes, in the changing room, you would see the occasional pair of blue legs. The shrunk to fit wasn't an option back then and to be sure of a fit, the fellows would sit in a bath tub of water, wearing their new jeans. That denim dye on the skin lasted weeks.

 

[Seb Lucas]

There are many fans of the Wrangler Cowboy cut.

Yes, the denim problem can be solved for $25 with a pair of these. Done.

 

[Blackadder]

Over the last three years I've been buying more Wrangler denims. Always worn Levi's 501's but my Wrangler denims look and fit so much better, feel really comfortable, as well.

I'm curious about the Cowboy cut, I don't think we get them here? At least not on the Wrangler UK website. The ones I tend to go between are the Texas and Arizona cuts and for me the Arizona ones are perfect, sometimes find the Texas cut sits a little too high over my boots and buying a longer length means they sit too low.

I found a pair of the Wrangler Cowboy cut on eBay, would it be safe to go for the same sizing as my Arizona cut denims? I see they give the option to go up an inch with regards to the length.

The Wrangler cowboy cut jeans that are sold in USA are mostly 100% cotton non-stretch jeans while those in Europe are mostly stretchable. They are not made by the same company. My understanding is that Wrangler sold the license or even trademark etc to other companies while keeping only its operation in USA. For example, Wrangler Japan is actually owned and made by Edwin Japan.
I have never bought any Wrangler Europe jeans but I suspect that they are not true to size meaning that they are vanity sized given its casual wear orientation. Wrangler USA are mostly true to size because they make mostly work jeans. I'd advise measuring a pair of new Arizona and see if the actual measurement is the same as the tag size. If it is then you can buy the Wrangler cowboy in the same size. If not then use the actual measurement for the Wrangler Cowboy and not the tag size.

 

[Peckinpah]

The Wrangler cowboy cut jeans that are sold in USA are mostly 100% cotton non-stretch jeans while those in Europe are mostly stretchable. They are not made by the same company. My understanding is that Wrangler sold the license or even trademark etc to other companies while keeping only its operation in USA. For example, Wrangler Japan is actually owned and made by Edwin Japan.
I have never bought any Wrangler Europe jeans but I suspect that they are not true to size meaning that they are vanity sized given its casual wear orientation. Wrangler USA are mostly true to size because they make mostly work jeans. I'd advise measuring a pair of new Arizona and see if the actual measurement is the same as the tag size. If it is then you can buy the Wrangler cowboy in the same size. If not then use the actual measurement for the Wrangler Cowboy and not the tag size.

Thanks for the info!

Quite disappointed to find out we don't get the proper Wranglers over here. If all goes well with the Cowboy cut I think I'll stick to getting my Wranglers from eBay.

Thanks again.

 

[Edward]

Over the last three years I've been buying more Wrangler denims. Always worn Levi's 501's but my Wrangler denims look and fit so much better, feel really comfortable, as well.

I'm curious about the Cowboy cut, I don't think we get them here? At least not on the Wrangler UK website. The ones I tend to go between are the Texas and Arizona cuts and for me the Arizona ones are perfect, sometimes find the Texas cut sits a little too high over my boots and buying a longer length means they sit too low.

I found a pair of the Wrangler Cowboy cut on eBay, would it be safe to go for the same sizing as my Arizona cut denims? I see they give the option to go up an inch with regards to the length.

Wrangler Cowboy Cut aren't officially imported to the UK, though I've had a couple of pairs over the last couple of years. One pair I wore hard as my only jeans for a year before they wore into small holes in the upper inside thigh; I have since patched these and am wearing them again. The other pair are now a year old and going strong too. I buy mine from Amazon. They're excellent jeans. The one you want is the basic 13MWZ model (either the rigid option or the 'one-wash' standard, in indigo). Same cut as they were when first introduced as the 11mwz in 1947. I next want to try a pair of the 31MWZ - a slightly looser version.

Two other options to consider as well if you want another pair that are a little different, if slightly more expensive: Prison Blues, or if you want selvedge, these from Soldier of Fortune are great:

https://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/catalogsearch/result/?q=usn+denim

I've had both. I prefer the wider, "40s" style, though if you want a slimmer leg, the others are preferable.

FWIW, if you're one of those strange people who don't appreciate cuffs on yer jeans - it's a waste of time going for selvedge as it's simply not visible. The basic American denim the Cowboy Cut Wranglers are made from is good stuff - robust, 14.75oz, (US Denim, sewn up in Mexico) and wears as well as any selvedge I've ever owned. Personally, I regard jeans as kick around wear and would no more pay £300 odds for a pair than fly to the moon, but that's all down to personal preference naturally.

I used to wear Freddies too; if you can get them in a sale they are nice, but no better than the ones that the Soldier of Fortune folks sell for half the price.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Wrangler don't sell 13MWZ here either and I have generally bought 4 pairs at once from the US and, even with shipping costs, they are a cheap option. At the moment there are a few country clothing stores on line down here that sell 13MWZ's at somewhat higher prices. Some of our rural communities appreciate US cowboy culture. Like Edward, I can't imagine paying hundreds for denim - it is pottering about gear and I just don't care enough.

 

[Sonero]

Don't forget to look into the Wrangler 936. They are a slimmer fit of the 13MWZ. They fit similar to an Ironheart Devil's Cut.
$36

 

[bn1966]

I’m a big fan of PikeBrothers jeans and have been for a while, from their slimmer cut ‘63 Roamers to much looser fit earlier models. Always worn cuffed I found them hard wearing & look good with some wear on them.
My happy hunting ground is eBay vendors who purchased a pair & then put them in the wardrobe, realised they don’t wear them, so put them on eBay for half the price of a new pair......that’s where I come in

 

[CatsCan]

Bravestar 21oz Ironside.
Totally worth $158. Heavy Duty.
View attachment 291057

Man! Don't go to sea no more. I bet this will pull you right down to Davy Jones' Locker!

 

[Sonero]

Man! Don't go to sea no more. I bet this will pull you right down to Davy Jones' Locker!

It is rather beefy.

 

[CatsCan]

The Wrangler cowboy cut jeans that are sold in USA are mostly 100% cotton non-stretch jeans while those in Europe are mostly stretchable. They are not made by the same company. My understanding is that Wrangler sold the license or even trademark etc to other companies while keeping only its operation in USA.

I can only second that. Many times I asked myself, why so many of our fellow american loungers seem to fav Wrangler in the denim threads. I believe it is helpful for many readers to understand, how the fashion market works.

There is some reasoning behind the desire to get "good" jeans in Europe. Whatever "good" means to us.
I don't think, that my analysis will be 100% correct. But I try.
There have been developments that many are unaware of. Just as an example: Converse USA ceased production, the brand name swapped over to Nike which moved production to Asia. My first asian pair was not holding up as the old US made did. I thought this was only me, maybe walking different, gaining weight... but then I learnt, that they had problems with rubber and vulcanizing. Later batches came out better.
Then Levis. I was used to wear Wrangler or Levis all my youth. But two decades ago I noticed that a Levis I had bought cracked over the knees after only three or four months. I learnt, that the european Levis were not longer produced in the same way and from the same material, and even not produced in the USA at all anymore. So different product, same brand name*. After the last of the old US cotton mills ceased production, US denim, which had always been superior to everything we could buy over here for many years, is in it's final days. So from my guess our fellow american loungers will notice changes in their Wranglers in near future. This will not happen from one day to another, but creeping.
I suppose that's they way it is as long as the earth is revolving, production will revolve around the planet in the quest for the most economic sources. I have come to totally skip cheap jeans, not because I am thinking, expensive means good. But with very cheap denim or clothing in general, chances are higher, that labor conditions for the workers are not to my liking. There are brands who are dedicated to quality denim who are not just searching for the cheapest production regions and the cheapest cotton available, but searching for the best quality and highest possible environment standards. If these start to incorporate a commitment for fair production conditions and high environmental standards and deliver long lasting end products at the same time, my denim world will be okay again. But we shall not be fooled. Some start very good and as soon as they are extremely popular and growing, they sell their brand name to bigger companies and the whole story repeats itself.

At least there are some really wonderful alternatives for us who like denim. The "denim aficionados" have discovered them. If they can be the solution for the mass marked, I have my doubt, because from their very nature, they are usually small businesses and their production is slow compared. But instead of a few huge "not so good" companies, loads of small, but better companies could make it.

At the moment, quite good jeans clothes are produced in

• Japan (from Okayama denim especially)
  
• Italy (denim from Italy and Turkey, but also more and more from Japan)
  
• Turkey (after they had huge problems and a bad reputation during the 90's and the first decade of the new century because of sick workers who suffered from lung deseases, they have improved hugely. Pike's denim is made there, but also in Japan)
• Germany (Blaumann, denim from Japan)
  
• a few single companies from China and other asian countries.
• still some brands in the USA (using old stock of US made denim, but more and more denim from Japan)

Still, there is a lot of not so good (not only for quality reasons, but labor conditions and environmental problems) coming from

• Bangladesh
• Cambodia
• India
• Sri Lanka (our yellow collar and blue collar worker's stuff is currently produced there, too)
• China and other asian countries
• Turkey

The latter must have their chances to develop their economy, and improve lives of their citizens, and we can contribute in buying form their fairer companies to show our interest in better standards by demonstrating that we are willing to pay more for better. Money makes the world go 'round.
Lists are by far not complete.

It is worth it to look closer at the things we buy. This refers to denim, too.

Cats

P.S.: I don't write off Levis* or Wrangler as of yet. Or other dinosaur brands (forgive me), although I believe in evolution

--------------------------------
*Worth to note here for all new to the matter: Levis LVC or Levis Vintage is something completely different than Levis.

 

[CatsCan]

I’m a big fan of PikeBrothers jeans and have been for a while, from their slimmer cut ‘63 Roamers to much looser fit earlier models. Always worn cuffed I found them hard wearing & look good with some wear on them.

Agree totally. I have come to wear them exclusively. And I am one of those, who wear theirs until they start to look good to eyes like your's and sell them to you guys..