dmoser1978
One of the Regulars
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It looks centered on the flap left and right and below center up and down. It's slightly higher than the other Durables I've seen, but it doesn't stand out to me.
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The Legendary DURABLE (Wild One) Jacket
- Thread starter Mysteryo
- Start date
All I'm saying is that personally I don't find it as attractive as that of other makers of the same time (or even other Durables) but it's this specific jacket that is singled out for reproduction. I'm not arguing that it's a technical mistake to design it that way.
jeo
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Bought this mint 50's Durable a couple of weeks ago for a steal. Looks like it was barley ever worn. I've only seen one (maybe two) as nice and as clean as this one and one of them is owned by an esteemed member of this forum.
I couldn't believe it when I came across this listing. Looked too good to be true, both in terms of condition and price. Was even suspecting repro for a moment but, although not the best pics, after some examination I could tell it was the real deal.
Couldn't pounce on it quick enough. Didn't even try and negotiate. I paid $500 for it. I was able to get the seller to include shipping. I didn't even know what size it was. Didn't matter as I was determined to own it regardless of size. As luck has it, it's a size that I can wear although a tad on the large side.
Onto the pics.
I couldn't believe it when I came across this listing. Looked too good to be true, both in terms of condition and price. Was even suspecting repro for a moment but, although not the best pics, after some examination I could tell it was the real deal.
Couldn't pounce on it quick enough. Didn't even try and negotiate. I paid $500 for it. I was able to get the seller to include shipping. I didn't even know what size it was. Didn't matter as I was determined to own it regardless of size. As luck has it, it's a size that I can wear although a tad on the large side.
Onto the pics.
jeo
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More pics.
Only real sign of wear.
Other elbow.
Says "RAU FASTENER CO. PROV R.I."
Couple fit pics. The 38 is a tad large, but workable. Definitely has the "hero cut" with the wide shoulders and small waist.
Only real sign of wear.
Other elbow.
Says "RAU FASTENER CO. PROV R.I."
Couple fit pics. The 38 is a tad large, but workable. Definitely has the "hero cut" with the wide shoulders and small waist.
Kubatu
A-List Customer
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Oh man, the minute I saw this jacket in the other thread, I got flashbacks, haha. I know the exact listing you're talking about and I stumbled onto it literally the day it was posted! The seller would have shipped, but I didn't want to take the gamble for $500 - the way they wanted the payment wasn't secure in that there was no buyer protection, and unfortunately, I decided earlier that high value payments with no purchase security is just not something I wanted to do after being scammed twice the same way. I tried to see if I knew anyone in Florida, but no dice.
All that to say I'm really happy the jacket ended up in the hands of a fellow lounger. It's a rare jacket in an even rarer condition. Congrats on the find!
jeo
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Thanks man! Yeah I've never seen one this nice either.
Oh wow, lucky me! I saw it fairly early but not the first day. I was shocked that it was still available.
Thank you!
tmitchell59
I'll Lock Up
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Stunning! You know I have developed an interest in the Durable and you appear with this! Incredible! I am working on a theory concerning the Durable brand Currently buying jackets to support my thesis.
I did buy an early 50s Durable MC jacket recently, probably their 1st edition. That jacket combined with some old hunches have me on a mission.
One of the most interesting pieces of the Durable puzzle; they were a Canadian company, not USA. Plus, nothing seems to be known about them today! I've owned two other Durable jackets and seen a few others. the jackets are the only story we have at this time. One I owned does offer some clues.
I took captures of the Wild Ones and have been comparing those to images of other Durables. (I have no doubt the Johnnie Jacket is a Durable). I'm in the process of cataloging changes I've noticed.
You sound like me; can't believe your eyes, can't believe it is still there, can't believe the price and don't care what size!!!!!!!!
What is your impression of this jacket?
Immaculate jacket and a great, if (contemporarily) unconventional fit on you.
This is extremely interesting to see! And (I mean this not as a slight at you whatsoever) seeing one in such immaculate condition actually drives in (to me, anyway) that the predominant TFL theory that Durable developed this jacket style, then Schott bought them and started using it, doesn't hold up, because the layout of the Schotts with this setup is more similar to that of their own pre-flap pocket ones than this.
Where did that theory come from? The fact that it was used in the Brando film?
jeo
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Thanks! Not a perfect fit by any means but I consider myself lucky to even have the ability to wear it at all.
Not a slight at all man. The condition of a jacket shouldn't have anything to do with it though. My jacket is a later model so it doesn't have any bearing on the 'who came first' discussion.
I knew about the Schott vs. Durable debate as far as the movie is concerned, but wasn't aware of a TFL theory saying that Durable came up with that design first.
The earliest Perfecto labeled "one stars" in the Schott book are called early 50's. Not even Schott claims anything pre early 50's and they have many claims. The earliest connection that I'm aware of between Schott and a jacket of similar design is the Beck catalog page from 1950 where they feature the first edition Beck 999. But it doesn't have the coin pocket so we can't call it a true Perfecto design.
The earliest Durables also date back to the early 50's. The movie came out in 1953 and the one worn in the movie is not the first generation of those jackets. According to collectors the first editions are the ones that have a bottom waist "band" and those are believed to be from the very early 50's as well.
So although not provable, for the most part we know that the Durables are at least as old as some of the earliest documented Schotts.
Who came first? Who knows. At the end of the day I don't think anyone will ever know exactly.
Even if there are some very early Schotts that no one has ever seen, including Schott themselves, that are mid to late 40's we won't know what came first, those or jackets like the Indian Ranger that date from as early as 1947 or Sportclads from the late 40's or others that all had an almost identical design to the Perfecto.
Whoever it is, they all took the design from jackets like this:
It's called an aviator jacket in this book but it's essentially the Perfecto design except instead of a flap or coin pocket, it's zippered and even has belt loops. These aviator styles are the originators as far as I'm concerned.
jeo
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I knew you would love to see it since you've acquired a beautiful first edition Durable recently. Would love to hear your theory! My theory is that there was more than one company using the Durable name. Can't prove it of course.
Yes, the "Wild One" jacket is 100% a Durable. There is absolutely no question in my mind. That has been long established as far as I'm concerned.
Oh yeah, when you come across a jacket like this you buy it no matter what regardless of size. I wasn't even aware of this, but apparently I took a risk buying it with the method of payment I used! Good thing it all worked out!
As far as my impression, I was one of those people that always said that the Durables are just another 50s mc jacket. As design and cut go, they're not remarkable in any way IMO. I've handle them before, latest one being at inspiration. But now that I've owned it for a little while I can say that they are top-of-the-line. I'm talking about the leather specifically. I own a bunch and handled plenty of 50s mc jackets and IMO they are on par with the best.
Yeah the theory is that Durable was bought by Schott, then Schott acquired the design and used it. But they seem to be using the overall design at the same time, as are other makers such as Indian, which in the 50s switches the patch pocket of the Ranger to a flap pocket like a Perfecto. So I don’t think that first theory adds up.
My feeling has always been it was pretty much an obvious move to add an extra ‘bonus’ pocket especially in that age of everyone smoking, not unlike how a lot of sports coats have a flap ticket pocket above the main pocket.
Exactly my thoughts. If you tuck the flap pocket of a Perfecto type, you basically have this.
jeo
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OK. I definitely heard the claim that Schott bought Durable just never the bit about Durable coming up with the design first. Don't know how that was ever considered a viable theory. Definitely doesn't add up.
tmitchell59
I'll Lock Up
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The Schott myth is just that, something created in the imaginations of many. It is a good story that weaves many greats into a Schott, but it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. No doubt the Johnnie Jacket is a Durable, I believe an identical jacket is posted in the first of this thread.
There were changes through the years. Given the date of the movie production c.1952, this is most probably the earliest of the second generation; the 2nd gen jackets have the red quilt (I assume nylon) lining an early edition Talon paper clip zipper, epaulets with a pointed end (not blunt cut) with one Star, no band around the belt line.
I red above mention of pictures showing the lining removed? for fit and drape. I'm not sure which or if I can see. This lining material would tell me a lot. I just don't see it in the pictures.
I have a Durable with the earlier lining and band around the belt line. These have a light Conmar zipper. It has a c.1950 look to it.
I do think Durable was a Canadian company.
There were changes through the years. Given the date of the movie production c.1952, this is most probably the earliest of the second generation; the 2nd gen jackets have the red quilt (I assume nylon) lining an early edition Talon paper clip zipper, epaulets with a pointed end (not blunt cut) with one Star, no band around the belt line.
I red above mention of pictures showing the lining removed? for fit and drape. I'm not sure which or if I can see. This lining material would tell me a lot. I just don't see it in the pictures.
I have a Durable with the earlier lining and band around the belt line. These have a light Conmar zipper. It has a c.1950 look to it.
I do think Durable was a Canadian company.
Marc mndt
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That's a Kit Karson by the way, which was made by Guide Master by Wolf if you ask me.Whoever it is, they all took the design from jackets like this:
It's called an aviator jacket in this book but it's essentially the Perfecto design except instead of a flap or coin pocket, it's zippered and even has belt loops.
What happened to your kit karson, the one with the four stars on the kidney panel, did you ever have it fixed?
jeo
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Have you seen that exact jacket with a Kit Karson label? If so, I’d love to see it.
I think I know the jacket you’re referring to that’s making you believe that.
When I first saw this I also immediately thought of the likes of Edgo, but Kit Karson was actually made by Ideal Sportswear Co.
I haven’t gotten around to fixing my 10 star. It only needs a piece of leather for the belt loop that is missing. I sewed back the other one that is loose. I’m in no hurry.
Marc mndt
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Nope, but I thought I was seeing a lot of similarities in terms of style and construction techniques between Wolf and Karson.
Interesting! I've never heard of Ideal Sportswear company. I guess they didn't produce under their own name?
Also interesting: one tag reads 'Kit Karson' and the other reads 'Kit Carson".
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58panheadfan
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I did some research in my literature. In fact, in the 1950's there were many leather jacket manufacturers who made the "one star" type. In addition to the Durable photos below, I have more photos added in the thread vintage-outerwear-threads-of-the-past
Interesting are the picture texts in Japanese which I freely translated with google (from top to bottom) whereby the Japanese are known for their authenticity:
"Shown to the left is the same model worn by Marlon Brando in the movie "The Wild One" with the lining removed and below is an older model."
"Later than the model worn by Marlon Brando. The models on the left and above are the same model, but the epaulette rivets and zipper materials are different."
"On the right is the same model worn by Marlon Brando in the movie "The Wild One" and the lining has been removed in one piece, older model on the left."
"Later than the model worn by Marlon Brando. The models on the left and above are the same model, but the epaulettes rivets and the zipper materials are different."
Interesting are the picture texts in Japanese which I freely translated with google (from top to bottom) whereby the Japanese are known for their authenticity:
"Shown to the left is the same model worn by Marlon Brando in the movie "The Wild One" with the lining removed and below is an older model."
"Later than the model worn by Marlon Brando. The models on the left and above are the same model, but the epaulette rivets and zipper materials are different."
"On the right is the same model worn by Marlon Brando in the movie "The Wild One" and the lining has been removed in one piece, older model on the left."
"Later than the model worn by Marlon Brando. The models on the left and above are the same model, but the epaulettes rivets and the zipper materials are different."
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jeo
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Got it. I doubt the jacket pictured in the book is a Kit Karson. That one is very old judging by the Talon. Don’t think they were around that long ago. Also everyone copied everyone so it’s not surprising to see jackets that are similar to each other if not exact copies.
It’s possible that just like many others, Kit Karson contracted different makers for their jackets but they weren’t a manufacturer themselves.
As for the difference, who knows if those tags even belong together or go with that jacket.
Most of the labels you’ll see has Karson with a K. At some point they changed from a K to a C or vice versa as I’m not sure what came first. Maybe even used at the same time. Here are a couple labels with a C, one being another Edgo lookalike.
Edit - if I had to guess it probably had to do with copyrights.
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