The general decline in standards today

[SGT Rocket]

Made in USA

LizzieMaine, I read Earth Abides as a little kid. I loved that book! Go figure.

Also, a little late to post this, but this is in relation to not manufacturing anything here in the U.S. anymore:
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1027529075001/perks-of-made-in-the-usa

 

[LizzieMaine]

"Visigoths? Why should we worry about Visigoths?"
-- Some Roman guy, A. D. 410.

 

[SGT Rocket]

Lol

^^^ :eusa_clap

Too true!!!

 

[Harp]

"Visigoths? Why should we worry about Visigoths?"
-- Some Roman guy, A. D. 410.

"The glory of the Goth is the maintenance of Roman civilization."

Cassiodorus, minister of the Gothic king Theoderic

 

[Yeps]

I have to say, being in D.C. if civilization ended by nuclear holocaust, I would not have to worry about the situation afterwards, I would clearly be gone in the first wave. Shame though, because I would probably do alright.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Thing is, I don't think a nuclear holocaust is the way it'll happen at all. Sorry, no radioactive biker gangs or zombie warlords or any of that what-not. What'll happen is what *is* happening right now -- you can only pile up a house of cards so high before the cards at the bottom can no longer bear the weight of those at the top. Impending collapse of civilization? We're soaking in it.

 

[Pompidou]

In a world so globalized, so interconnected, and yet so diverse - I can't see any collapse reducing the whole of world civilization in any way that would lead to the abandonment of modern technology. What seems most likely to happen is a reversal in the jobs we're willing to pay top wages for. For example, I could see a future where a severe shortage of trade laborers causes supply and demand to jack up their wages significantly, and in that same future, devalue stock brokers and other careers built solely around manipulating intangible, theoretical commodities and currencies. Meanwhile, the average Joe will just keep on living. Might cost a fortune to unclog a toilet, but then parents by then will be trying to reap the benefits, sending kids to the high paying trades via tech schools and such. Are there problems on the horizon? Definitely. Who knows how many bubbles there are? Will they set the world back 200 years? That's where I'm skeptical. I'm thinking, worst case, unemployment hits 11% or something.

 

[sheeplady]

If we're looking at a survivalist situation, I don't care how good my skills are. Chances are not good for survival, given how many people will have no skills, be hungry, and roaming the streets. Starvation makes people do crazy things for very little. There are going to be far more starving people than one can imagine.

I kind of look at it like this: so what if it costs you a lot to hire a plumber? Obviously, if you are hiring someone, that means that you don't want to/ can't do it. I believe in paying people what they're worth. That's the price of hiring somebody. You don't want to pay the fee, don't hire somebody. Live without, make do, or do it yourself, but don't whine about it.

If the trades really do begin to pay very well because of lack of tradespeople, then people will pick up the trades. If a plumber, road paver, or some other trade starts making $100 an hour, people will line up to do those trades. Society is going to self-correct. It's not like we're going to give up indoor plumbing at this point. And I see nothing wrong with tradespeople becoming high income earners in our societies.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the problem isn't *just* economic inequities, or the widening imbalance between practical and theoretical education, or steadily decaying infrastructure, or the breakdown of community spirit, or the ongoing degradation of culture. But *all of these things, happening at once,* point only in one direction to me -- and that's downhill. It's still a few generations away, I think, but fewer than I once thought. I wouldn't be starting any college funds for the great-great grandkids.

The museums are full of great civilizations that have been reduced to dust. It's hubris to think that we'll be any different.

I don't think it'll be a matter of abandoning modern technology. I think modern technology will abandon us -- try and get a cellphone to work when the power grid goes down.

 

[Pompidou]

One good thing to take from your museum examples is that, in each case, humanity as a whole moved forward. If the argument is that America might be unrecognizable in 50-100 years, well, maybe. Egypt of the Pharaohs and Egypt today are certainly two different beasts, as are Imperial Rome and Rome the capital of modern Italy. The Roman Empire collapsed, but now we have iPads. No setback has ever totally thwarted progress. Maybe we'll be speaking Chinese in 150 years, or maybe the world will fall under the control of a shadowy corporate oligarchy- some new world order, they always talk about - but with any luck, we'll have iPhone 375s running on 100G networks, so it'll be okay. We'll probably even get cell phone reception in subway tunnels by then.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Possibly. But the speed at which language comprehension seems to be decaying among the younger generation, I think the next big thing in communications is more likely to be pictographs chiseled on a rock.

 

[Gregg Axley]

I'm getting cranial cramps.
Being in gov't, I'm privy to some of the best employees on the planet. Good thing sarcasm doesn't show online...
I've been with the same gov't 23yrs, and can honestly say that in that time, things have gone downhill significantly. Those that have the knowledge of how to run things, the experience of 20-30+ years of being in the same situations over and over again, with a positive outcome due to their decisions, are leaving. What's left are people that don't know how to run a lemonade stand, but they see the gov't employment as an easy check. Soon, very soon, you start losing services that support the infrastructure. I'm watching another lower agency slowly spiral out of control, as the bottom cards (Lizzie mentioned) are buckling under the weight, and collapsing.
Those bottom cards? The experienced people I mention. Policy and procedure go by the wayside and give way to "great ideas formed in a group." I could go on and on about office etiquette and how that's lacking, knowing proper grammer and not sentences made up of 4 letter words, and even how to dress (not like you're hookin on the corner!). Great thread btw....

 

[AtomicEraTom]

You always speak the truth, Lizzie. If you watch the news, you can see it happening like crazy!

Thing is, I don't think a nuclear holocaust is the way it'll happen at all. Sorry, no radioactive biker gangs or zombie warlords or any of that what-not. What'll happen is what *is* happening right now -- you can only pile up a house of cards so high before the cards at the bottom can no longer bear the weight of those at the top. Impending collapse of civilization? We're soaking in it.

I would actually like to see this happen. I know a lot of people that work really hard, breaking their backs for a living and make very little, meanwhile you watch people, such as professional athletes make a fortune. It churns my stomach.

In a world so globalized, so interconnected, and yet so diverse - I can't see any collapse reducing the whole of world civilization in any way that would lead to the abandonment of modern technology. What seems most likely to happen is a reversal in the jobs we're willing to pay top wages for. For example, I could see a future where a severe shortage of trade laborers causes supply and demand to jack up their wages significantly, and in that same future, devalue stock brokers and other careers built solely around manipulating intangible, theoretical commodities and currencies. Meanwhile, the average Joe will just keep on living. Might cost a fortune to unclog a toilet, but then parents by then will be trying to reap the benefits, sending kids to the high paying trades via tech schools and such. Are there problems on the horizon? Definitely. Who knows how many bubbles there are? Will they set the world back 200 years? That's where I'm skeptical. I'm thinking, worst case, unemployment hits 11% or something.

I'm hoping it also makes people realize that you don't need a McMansion to be happy. A modest home big enough for your family and the dog and enough room for the sedan and the station wagon in the garage should be enough.

Also, I agree with you that if you own something, such as a car, gun, etc, you should know how it ticks. If my car, gun, TV, radio, etc need servicing, there is a good chance that I can fix it myself, not always, but a lot of the time.

lol, I love that picture LM!

I agree. I'm REALLY hoping this recession (depression?) is bringing folks around to self-sustainability. I'm hoping people learn how to fix things, mend things, make due, etc. I think kids should go through scouts, home ec., shop, and other useful classes.

I think anyone that owns a car should be made to change tires and oil before driving off the lot. I feel the same way about guns - I don't walk out of a store with a gun unless I know how to break it down and clean it. I think people should learn how to butcher their own meat and grow their own veggies. I think people should know how to clean things without dishwashers or laundry machines, or mend with needle and thread.

I think people should purposely turn off the electricity after dinner and force themselves to sit in candlelight (candles they made!) to enjoy each other's company. I think people should wait to turn on the AC until it hits 100 and just put up with fans until then. I think people should do without boxed food altogether and learn to cook with raw ingredients.

I know its inconvenient and uncomfortable, but life isn't either of those things. If everything came crashing down, it's better to have your wits and feel at least somewhat in-control as opposed to losing your mind in the first 3 days.

 

[SGT Rocket]

I think I agree mostly with Pompidou. However, I really, really, wanted to be the leader of a radioactive, zombie, biker gang. Rats!

Seriously, if civilization went to "hell in a hand basket" the people who would survive and come out of top would be the people with guns and with no remorse to do what ever they thought they needed to do... Many examples of that in the world today and in history.

 

[djd]

This is true, but I for one am happy that *civilization* has done a lot to take care of the widowed, orphaned, and wounded of our society.

Yes - you're quite right. There are pros and cons to it. Sadly the biggest con is that the stupid get to breed before the sabre tooth tiger eats them

 

[Puzzicato]

Another history major here; switched premed, went to law school,
and now scribbling a PhD thesis-philosophy.

Consider college as preparation for Life.
Read everything, take a liberal curriculum-seek out the most demanding professors who assign the toughest work load; and understand that no college/university will specifically prepare you for the three or more radically different fields you will probably enter. Prepare your march through life and to grapple with fate from the advantage knowledge
affords of human achievement and experience.
Your mind is your best weapon, so hone it to a razor while you are young.

I think that is a wonderful approach - unfortunately not one the Australian university system is on board with. You get the marks to get into a course, you do the set units for that degree, with maybe a couple of choices of units along the way and then you get spat out the other end with a qualification and a HECS debt. Changes of interest are punished by higher debts and access to Austudy grants being cut (or it was - can't imagine things have improved in the last few years).

I am very lucky that I come from a family that reads, and doesn't think it is unusual for anyone to say "So I was reading philosophy/poetry/Wisden" - anything really. That's not something that everyone gets, which is a shame.

 

[sheeplady]

I am very lucky that I come from a family that reads, and doesn't think it is unusual for anyone to say "So I was reading philosophy/poetry/Wisden" - anything really. That's not something that everyone gets, which is a shame.

I rub shoulders with a lot of librarians. A high percentage of the homes with children in the US (I want to say 20-30%) do not contain any reading materials- no books, no magazines, no newspapers. We're not talking just children's books either- no reading materials of any kind. It is a high risk factor for a lot of things in life- learning to read, not graduating high school, etc.

I don't know if this is true in other developed countries, but I find it really, truly disturbing. Reading literacy is one of the most basic life skills (I know, I had a lot of problems learning to read as a child). I also find it hard to believe that these homes actually have nothing to read and this isn't disturbing to the adults in the home.

 

[angeljenny]

During a conversation about reading at work today, a couple of people said that they hadn't read a book since they had left school! I was shocked!

 

[LizzieMaine]

I rub shoulders with a lot of librarians. A high percentage of the homes with children in the US (I want to say 20-30%) do not contain any reading materials- no books, no magazines, no newspapers. We're not talking just children's books either- no reading materials of any kind. It is a high risk factor for a lot of things in life- learning to read, not graduating high school, etc.

This is barbarism, plain and simple.

My grandparents were not educated people by any stretch of the imagination -- they were ordinary early 20th century working class folk who got out of school as soon as they possibly could. But their home contained works by Shakespeare, Dickens, and Twain, a good selection of quality novels from the twenties thru the fifties, an encyclopedia, an unabridged dictonary, and several translations of the Bible. They also took a daily newspaper, the local weekly, and several popular magazines. And this was by no means exceptional for their culture. Even the poorest home had room for books.

 

[Pompidou]

If you have a computer, you don't need actual books. Maybe these households rely on internet/e-books for that need?