The general decline in standards today

[jamespowers]

Closest we were able to get was a semester of Mechanical Drawing, which I enjoyed very much. We did, however, own our own printing press, and as the head of the school paper I got to learn how to operate and maintain it because everybody else -- including the boys -- were scared of it. So there.

My friend took mechanical drawing. It worked well for him since he is now a tool and die maker. Our own Lois Lane.

 

[scottyrocks]

Giving to charity doesn't typically come and rob you in the middle of the night. Or at least none of the charities I give to ever have. That's some pretty hard core charities that come and take it from you to give.

That's not what I was getting at.

 

[rue]

Oh geez! That was a safety confidence builder. lol lol

Yeah.... I'm still scared of sharp tools lol

 

[jamespowers]

Yeah.... I'm still scared of sharp tools lol

Well, you do like your fingers. I suppose a healthy respect for sharp tools is a good thing.

 

[scottyrocks]

In the last few years before he retired in the '90s, my Dad's middle school shop class was renamed Technology, and with that, gone was the hands-on aspect of Shop, or, 'Industrial Arts,' something that many of his kids needed and could get nowhere else in a safe, constructive environment.

 

[jamespowers]

In the last few years before he retired in the '90s, my Dad's middle school shop class was renamed Technology, and with that, gone was the hands-on aspect of Shop, or, 'Industrial Arts,' something that many of his kids needed and could get nowhere else in a safe, constructive environment.

They tried to get rid of shop here by throwing away the equipment over the summer. Someone saw it and gathered up the equipment. The resulting publicity made them reinstate shop and the equipment---some new equipment was donated by the public as well. We have morons running our school system here. :doh:

 

[vitanola]

You just politicized it. I merely mentioned the book. YOU mentioned a bunch of left wingnut websites. Scott "the technophobe" Sumner? lol lol

No. William Grant Sumner. Anyone moderately informed about our economic history would be familiar with him, I think.

I suppose that you would consider him to be "left wing" too.



You seem to have a positive talent for tooting on political dog whistles. Ferguson is a modern figure who has chosen to be quite blatantly partisan. Rather like Burt Folsom, another modern revisionist historian. When speaking to Dr. Folsom at a party a couple of years ago I asked him about a couple of whoppers which he had included in his book "New Deal or Raw Deal". He responded with a chuckle and said that whilst they were not strictly true, as in factual, they were important because they demonstrated an underlying economic truth. One of the whopers was a made-up quotation. The other was a group of entirely fictitious statistics.

 

[1961MJS]

Same here. I took both Home economics and shop. The shop teacher only had three fingers on one of his hands.

Hi

My cousin (now deceased) ran a vocational school in Kentucky. He lost his right hand in a corn picker back in the early 1970's and had to shake hands with the left from then on. I'm sure that brought out a lot of confidence in his students.

later

 

[jamespowers]

No. William Grant Sumner. Anyone moderately informed about our economic history would be familiar with him, I think.

I suppose that you would consider him to be "left wing" too.



You seem to have a positive talent for tooting on political dog whistles. Ferguson is a modern figure who has chosen to be quite blatantly partisan. Rather like Burt Folsom, another modern revisionist historian. When speaking to Dr. Folsom at a party a couple of years ago I asked him about a couple of whoppers which he had included in his book "New Deal or Raw Deal". He responded with a chuckle and said that whilst they were not strictly true, as in factual, they were important because they demonstrated an underlying economic truth. One of the whopers was a made-up quotation. The other was a group of entirely fictitious statistics.

What the Social Classes Owe to Each Other?! Yes, Left wing.

If you got off your high horse once in a while you would see that your choices are political. You can hide behind "facts" but you are an ideolog no more or less than what you call others.

 

[jamespowers]

Hi

My cousin (now deceased) ran a vocational school in Kentucky. He lost his right hand in a corn picker back in the early 1970's and had to shake hands with the left from then on. I'm sure that brought out a lot of confidence in his students.

later

:rofl: Or it might have taught them a sobering lesson about screwing around near machinery.

 

[sheeplady]

That's not what I was getting at.

So... I guess the question is: Do people who believe in a primarily private charity system give to private charity? If you believe in private charity, how much of your income do you give a year to private charity? How many hours a week do you volunteer?

My family doesn't believe in just a private charity system but we try to give generously.
My answers are:
1. At least 10% (from gross income), more if we can swing it. We have tried to aim for 20% recently.
2. Since I fell ill, my volunteer time has been cut significantly. I still try to do a few hours a week. Before my illness, I shot for at least 5 hours a week.

And for the record, when both my husband and I were working we made less than the median income for our neighborhood. Now that I am a stay-at-home-mom we make considerably less than that. We just make it a priority to give- and we certainly don't believe in a private-only charity system. We go without a lot of things understanding that we have the choice to go without the more expensive categories of groceries/ food items, large holidays, etc. Other people don't have the choice to go without eating.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

When I was in high school Home Ec was divided into Cooking and Sewing. While there were a few boys in the Cooking class there was only one in the Sewing class. He wanted to be a fashion designer and if I remember correctly he was always very well-dressed and even designed and made his own clothes.

As for the shop classes there was Wood Shop, Machine Shop, Auto Shop, Drafting and Electronics. I took Drafting and Electronics which I particularly liked. Some years later I even found a copy of the Electronics textbook that we used at one of the local flea markets and I still have it. Sad to say, I looked at my old high school's website not too long ago and found that they no longer have shop courses.

 

[jamespowers]

When I was in high school Home Ec was divided into Cooking and Sewing. While there were a few boys in the Cooking class there was only one in the Sewing class. He wanted to be a fashion designer and if I remember correctly he was always very well-dressed and even designed and made his own clothes.

As for the shop classes there was Wood Shop, Machine Shop, Auto Shop, Drafting and Electronics. I took Drafting and Electronics which I particularly liked. Some years later I even found a copy of the Electronics textbook that we used at one of the local flea markets and I still have it. Sad to say, I looked at my old high school's website not too long ago and found that they no longer have shop courses.

Yes, the ridiculous trend is to move away from shop classes. You have to fight hard to keep them locally. I guess they think every one is destined to go to college and become CEOs. Obviously they have never had to call in a plumber or electrician lately. :doh:

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Obviously they have never had to call in a plumber or electrician lately. :doh:

But that's what immigrants are for.
(sarcasm)

 

[jamespowers]

But that's what immigrants are for.
(sarcasm)

I wonder if at the back of their mind they are thinking something like that. Oh and that would include gardeners too I suppose.

 

[vitanola]

What the Social Classes Owe to Each Other?! Yes, Left wing.

If you got off your high horse once in a while you would see that your choices are political. You can hide behind "facts" but you are an ideolog no more or less than what you call others.

Bye the bye, Sumner's answer to that question was along the lines of "nothing".

You might read "Social Classes" It is available on the Mises Institute web site. I often find Sumner's conclusions to be profoundly uncongenial, but his work is generally well reasoned and insightful, and it does not appear that he felt the need of making things up. I suspect that with your apparent Libertarian bent you may very much like his stuff, appreciating it as much as I do my Brandeis. Sumner is a much more pleasant read than Spencer, though his ideas are oft
derived from Spencer's.

 

[jamespowers]

Bye the bye, Sumner's answer to that question was along the lines of "nothing".

You might read "Social Classes" It is available on the Mises Institute web site. I often find Sumner's conclusions to be profoundly uncongenial, but his work is generally well reasoned and insightful, and it does not appear that he felt the need of making things up. I suspect that with your apparent Libertarian bent you may very much like his stuff, appreciating it as much as I do my Brandeis. Sumner is a much more pleasant read than Spencer, though his ideas are oft
derived from Spencer's.

So you recommend a Social Darwinist eh? lol lol

 

[dh66]

I used to teach plumbing and print reading classes at a local trade school. When the s**t hit the fan back in 07 the govt. was handing out grants left and right to go back to school and re-train for new careers. The first semester that went on there were about 40 folks signed up for the plumbing program (about 4 times as many as normal). By the end only 3 had completed it. Most were gone within the first 2 or 3 weeks.
Nobody wants to actually work for a living anymore.
Honestly, I don't blame them. Employers see employees as a liability these days, not an asset.


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[vitanola]

So you recommend a Social Darwinist eh? lol lol

As I said before, I thought that you might find his ideas to be congenial. I found it rather amusing when you apparently assumed that he was a leftist.

I personally cannot find it in my heart to embrace his strict lassiez faire principles, but do admire his style, wit and his consistency, which though occasionally disagreeable certainly is not of the foolish variety.

Whilst I am myself an old-time Bull Moose, I aspire to conversance with most of the principal political and economic thinkers of the Era (and their heirs, if any).

The current atmosphere of intense political partisanship is rather like the water in which a fish swims, I think. One must distance oneself (at least in time) to notice it.

It is a terrible pity that you seem to think that objection to the promulgation of falsehood is partisan. It says something about someone's idea of partisanship, doesn't it?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Yes, the ridiculous trend is to move away from shop classes. You have to fight hard to keep them locally. I guess they think every one is destined to go to college and become CEOs. Obviously they have never had to call in a plumber or electrician lately. :doh:

I know a lot of electricians and plumbers making $90 an hour, and I know a lot of college graduates making $10 an hour working retail. Who's the saps now?