The general decline in standards today

[1961MJS]

...I have to say, speaking now as an outsider to America, I find that a really quite bizarre phenomenon in a country where President is an office held rather than an honour bestowed. From here it looks as though you have a really really limited form of "life peerage" granted solely to all former presidents. Does this come from early presidents being so respected that the honourific remained for them after they left office (I'm thinking here of Washington et al) or is it a new phenomenon?

Hi Mr. Stratford,

You are somewhat correct. I don't look upon it as a "life peerage" for un-reelected politicians, as I do a life Kleptocracy. The politicians are purchased by various interests (business, unions, religious organizations, and the media), then when in office pay those entities back. Most Politicians remain powerful in for form of knowing too much to quit paying, and not enough to go to the trouble of making them disappear. These types are generally paid far over their worth.

I may be a bit jaded, even though I wore my new hat to a really great steakhouse last night.

Later

 

[1961MJS]

And the best argument FOR democracy is usually a five-minute "conversation" with an average dictator's average secret police...

Hi Flicka, Working the average dictator's secret police is the easiest job in the world. Free uniforms, if you see or hear about someone that you think might eventually decide to be disloyal to you (or fearless leader), you just arrest them and take all of their stuff to distribute among you and your employees.

Unfortunately, in America, the average voter probably shouldn't be breeding, much less voting, thus bringing the quote: "The US has the government it deserves." Thank God, we're not getting the government we're paying for.

Later

 

[LizzieMaine]

Ain't that the truth? The first thing I thought when I saw that picture of Truman at the ball game was, "Wow, and no one is wrestling him to the ground with their hands around his throat?"

The purest expression of American democracy is found in the cheap seats at any ballpark. No matter who you are, or what your station in life, you have the right to call an overpaid relief pitcher a bum.

 

[Widebrim]

Because General is a more respected title. :rofl:

And that's how I always refer to Eisenhower, general. Or Ike...

 

[Widebrim]

OK, somebody has to do it, so I will: "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

I'd like to counter that, but can't...That's why the Founding Fathers established a republic.

I think that's because most rising dictators are:
1. Really good propaganda people
2. Get rid of dissent quickly and ruthlessly
3. Take advantage of populations who are down and out and have a void of leadership

4. Usually initially supported by the U.S. government...

 

[sheeplady]

4. Usually initially supported by the U.S. government...

... and continually supported until the dismal end. Past the point it is abysmally clear to everyone on the planet that the regime is going to fall because of the atrocities they have committed.

People in the U.S. wonder why common people in other countries hate us, but we have a very very very bad track record of supporting the bad dictator who murders his citizens.

 

[Son_of_Atropos]

People in the U.S. wonder why common people in other countries hate us, but we have a very very very bad track record of supporting the bad dictator who murders his citizens.

The common people in other countries have been getting a free ride on the U.S. military for years though. Hindsight is 20/20.

 

[Stanley Doble]

It is an old custom to use titles like "General" "Captain" "Professor" "Judge" or "President" as a mark of respect even after the holder retires, or goes into another line of work.

A curious example. Mark Twain visited Austria in the 1890s and wrote about a political crisis then unfolding. He noticed that many of the Members of the House of Representatives were addressed as "Herr Professor". He wondered if this was a courtesy title, like "Colonel" in the southern US, but was assured that no, the men actually were professors and had earned their doctorates before going into politics.

 

[Undertow]

The common people in other countries have been getting a free ride on the U.S. military for years though. Hindsight is 20/20.

X

Edited

Let's agree to disagree on this one, SoA.

(Thanks for the heads up, PSG!)

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Politics will shut down this thread. (Not by me, obviously.)

 

[1961MJS]

Politics will shut down this thread. (Not by me, obviously.)

But before it goes completely under, the thread title is "The general decline in standards today", how much of that decline is directly and indirectly caused by the people we elect to govern us? Our brightest and best commonly have a real job...

Later

 

[LizzieMaine]

I wouldn't trust the "best and brightest," so called, to take out the garbage after what we've seen over the past thirty years. When some new appointee is introduced as a "Harvard Economics graduate," I lock the windows, pull the blinds, and stand in the doorway holding a baseball bat.

 

[1961MJS]

I wouldn't trust the "best and brightest," so called, to take out the garbage after what we've seen over the past thirty years. When some new appointee is introduced as a "Harvard Economics graduate," I lock the windows, pull the blinds, and stand in the doorway holding a baseball bat.

Hi

I agree. I didn't mean to include the average or even above average Harvard grad in the "brightest and best" category. Ever read Rich Dad, Poor Dad? Story of a kid whose professor (real Dad) made little money and his Rich Dad (best friend's Dad) knew how to make and keep money.

Later

 

[William Stratford]

There are few things in this world that are not political....

 

[PrettySquareGal]

There are few things in this world that are not political....

Then what do you call the Fedora Lounge? Seems pretty full of topics about things.

 

[William Stratford]

Then what do you call the Fedora Lounge? Seems pretty full of topics about things.

Part of that world.

 

[sheeplady]

Politics will shut down this thread. (Not by me, obviously.)

It's a fact that the U.S. government supported the Shah of Iran. It is also a fact that the U.S. government supported Mubarak. And countless others.

It is also a fact that these individuals willingly killed and tortured their own citizens for basic dissent.

Politics are a matter of opinion and choice that can be debated. Facts are not politics. Having a personal view on murder and torture is not taking a political position.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

It's a fact that the U.S. government supported the Shah of Iran. It is also a fact that the U.S. government supported Mubarak. And countless others.

It is also a fact that these individuals willingly killed and tortured their own citizens for basic dissent.

Politics are a matter of opinion and choice that can be debated. Facts are not politics. Having a personal view on murder and torture is not taking a political position.

pol·i·tics

noun (plural) /ˈpäləˌtiks/ 
politics, plural

The activities associated with the governance of a country or other area, esp. the debate or conflict among individuals or parties having or hoping to achieve power

The activities of governments concerning the political relations between countries


Anyway, I don't make or enforce the rules, just would hate to see this thread get shut down.

 

[Undertow]

It's a fact that the U.S. government supported the Shah of Iran. It is also a fact that the U.S. government supported Mubarak. And countless others.

It is also a fact that these individuals willingly killed and tortured their own citizens for basic dissent.

Politics are a matter of opinion and choice that can be debated. Facts are not politics. Having a personal view on murder and torture is not taking a political position.

My original post was very much in this vein - that facts are facts, not dem/repub bickering.

Alas, PSG is correct - it's easy to skirt the edges of acceptable and unacceptable on the Lounge. I would just as soon retract something than have a thread shut down. I'm not going to leave it to the Bartenders to have to shut down a thread - this is a group effort. So, meh...[huh]

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I wouldn't trust the "best and brightest," so called, to take out the garbage after what we've seen over the past thirty years. When some new appointee is introduced as a "Harvard Economics graduate," I lock the windows, pull the blinds, and stand in the doorway holding a baseball bat.

Achtung, Minen!
Once upon a time -- obviously way before my time -- having a college education actually meant something. Sadly, in the last thirty or forty years college has proven that it is quite possible to come out of it dumber than when you went in.