The general decline in standards today

[Edward]

I haven’t been to England in quite some time. I’m sorry to hear that things are deteriorating so quickly there. Anyhow, I cling to my little hope about society moving forward. Even if it turns out that I’m wrong, it makes getting up in the mornings easier.

AF

I guess I'm in the same boat as yourself, Atticus. FWIW, the description above sure doesn't sound like the England I live in.... at least, not unless its filtered through the Daily Mail first. [huh]

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

There is a painting that compares 2 English city scenes from the Victorian era i think comparing GIN STREET to ALE STREET in a book on beer I used to have. The parallels to the bad behavior in the Gin street scene to what is describe for England now is amazing.

I believe the paintings you're referring to were engravings by Hogarth from 1751

Beer Street

Gin Lane

 

[vitanola]

"I seem to recall news stories about people getting in trouble for bringing or shipping a Bible to Canada because it was deemed "hate literature."


The stories indeed existed, although the "people getting in trouble for bringing or shipping a Bible to Canada ..." did not, but then what should one expect, the tale was so ENERGIZING, was it not?

 

[Undertow]

Just thought some of you might be interested in this story (and how it may relate to our OP):

Why Advertisers Want to Know Your Deep, Dark Secrets

"For example, the advertisement tailored to extraverts included the line "With XPhone, you’ll always be where the excitement is;" for neurotics, the same line read "Stay safe and secure with the XPhone."

 

[AntonAAK]

I guess I'm in the same boat as yourself, Atticus. FWIW, the description above sure doesn't sound like the England I live in.... at least, not unless its filtered through the Daily Mail first. [huh]

:eusa_clap

 

[William Stratford]

the description above sure doesn't sound like the England I live in....

Then perhaps you are more fortunate in your surroundings

at least, not unless its filtered through the Daily Mail first. [huh]

Perhaps if you put down the Guardian you'd have a better view.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Just thought some of you might be interested in this story (and how it may relate to our OP):

Why Advertisers Want to Know Your Deep, Dark Secrets

"For example, the advertisement tailored to extraverts included the line "With XPhone, you’ll always be where the excitement is;" for neurotics, the same line read "Stay safe and secure with the XPhone."

And to think they laughed at Vance Packard.

 

[HoundstoothLuke]

I guess I'm in the same boat as yourself, Atticus. FWIW, the description above sure doesn't sound like the England I live in.... at least, not unless its filtered through the Daily Mail first. [huh]

London is actually much nicer than more provinicial areas of the UK when it comes to drunken idiots. I live in Sheffield, and certainly West Street (one of the main drinking streets) is certainly not a nice place to walk down on a Friday or Saturday night. That said, I do think a lot of the "social degeneracy" talked about by the media is overblown.

 

[Undertow]

And to think they laughed at Vance Packard.

Vance Packard, 82, Challenger of Consumerism, Dies

This is a little write-up in the NY Times about Mr. Packard, upon his death. I think the article succinctly states what the advertising industry thought:

"The advertising business hit back; its representatives took to public forums everywhere to declare that motivational research helped advertisers better serve the American people. To this day, leaders in the industry deny that subliminal devices have been used to sell products in the marketplace. They denounced Mr. Packard's book as ''malicious'' because in their view, it made them seem needlessly sinister" [note* bold is mine]

Funny how the Judas goats never seem to show any remorse while the others are lead off in a different direction. Worse yet, the Judas goats are actively lying, too.

 

[Flicka]

I'm usually the first to complain about the empty-headed consumerism that rules today's society, but lets face it, not everything is necessarily crap today. Maybe the overall sum is pretty crappy, but lets not get carried away about the parts.

Whilst now they get pumped full of whichever profit-making substance is being pushed by pharaceutical corporations through the GPs..

Me, I'm rather high than dead. I'm glad I have the choice between the two.

Whereas today Christianity has been added to the list of religions not tolerated (albeit through mockery).

This is hyperbole and I live in the most atheist country in the world and I'm Catholic. Sure I get some slack, but I'm hardly persecuted. People think I'm nuts but they do respect my right to be nuts.

But yeah, I think spelling probably used to be a damned sight better once upon a time.

 

[John in Covina]

This is hyperbole and I live in the most atheist country in the world and I'm Catholic. Sure I get some slack, but I'm hardly persecuted. People think I'm nuts but they do respect my right to be nuts.

They say that Sweden is the most atheistic country and India is the most religeous. The USA is like many Indians being ruled by Swedes.

The irreligeous here have a disdain for the religeous that is palpable.

 

[John in Covina]

I believe the paintings you're referring to were engravings by Hogarth from 1751

Beer Street

Gin Lane

Those are the ones! Thanks!

 

[William Stratford]

This is hyperbole and I live in the most atheist country in the world and I'm Catholic. Sure I get some slack, but I'm hardly persecuted. People think I'm nuts but they do respect my right to be nuts.

They don't burn you at the stake anymore, they just reduce such things to "lifestyle options" and increasingly attack the role of anything but secularism in the public arena. But we digress far from the OP on this point.

But yeah, I think spelling probably used to be a damned sight better once upon a time.

Grammar, too, and manners.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the general cultural hostility to religion is a very new, recent thing -- a backlash against the rise of Evangelicalism. Sixty years ago, modern Evangelicalism held little influence outside the American South -- but since the late 1970s, it's expanded aggressively to the point where a whole generation of people has grown up thinking it's the sole and unchallenged voice of Christianity, and they judge all "religion" by its excesses. As someone who grew up a New England mind-your-own-business Methodist, I simply point out that there's plenty of honest Christianity in the world that has nothing whatsoever to do with those excesses -- and the militant atheist crowd accomplishes nothing constructive by tarring all believers with the same brush.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Vance Packard, 82, Challenger of Consumerism, Dies

This is a little write-up in the NY Times about Mr. Packard, upon his death. I think the article succinctly states what the advertising industry thought...

A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

 

[William Stratford]

I think the general cultural hostility to religion is a very new, recent thing -- a backlash against the rise of Evangelicalism.

In part I would agree, but there is more to it than that (coming out of the Enlightenment era, its values, and its opposition to faith, tradition and community in favour of rationalisation, innovation and individualism - sorry, pet subject, as I taught Religious Studies at college for a while ).

As someone who grew up a New England mind-your-own-business Methodist, I simply point out that there's plenty of honest Christianity in the world that has nothing whatsoever to do with those excesses -- and the militant atheist crowd accomplishes nothing constructive by tarring all believers with the same brush.

Coming from a fairly straightforward conservative-but-decidedly-not-evangelical Anglican background, I would agree with this.

 

[Widebrim]

I think the general cultural hostility to religion is a very new, recent thing -- a backlash against the rise of Evangelicalism. Sixty years ago, modern Evangelicalism held little influence outside the American South -- but since the late 1970s, it's expanded aggressively to the point where a whole generation of people has grown up thinking it's the sole and unchallenged voice of Christianity, and they judge all "religion" by its excesses.

I believe that it specifically relates to the rise and influence of Fundamentalism and Pentecostalism, rather than overall Evangelicalism. Many who consider themselves Evangelicals are not within those two other camps. But you're right in saying that many followers of Jesus Christ have nothing to do with those "excesses."

 

[LizzieMaine]

When I think of the public figures of the latter half of the twentieth century, the one I think of as best representing the actual teachings and values of Christ was Fred Rogers -- a Pennsylvania Presbyterian, but in no way a sectarian. If there were more Christians like him in the public realm I think Christianity would have a far better reputation than it does.

 

[Widebrim]

When I think of the public figures of the latter half of the twentieth century, the one I think of as best representing the actual teachings and values of Christ was Fred Rogers -- a Pennsylvania Presbyterian, but in no way a sectarian. If there were more Christians like him in the public realm I think Christianity would have a far better reputation than it does.

Yes, excellent example, and at different times in history, there were more like him in the public arena. (Funny that the [false] rumor still persists that he was a sniper in WWII...)

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Ain't it the truth? You can't judge any group by the far-extreme of it.

I'm a weekly church goer, raised in the Catholic Church. Once I'm out of that building, I spend little time speaking of it, unless it comes up in conversation, or someone asks me 'how was church?' or something of the like. I understand that people who go around trying to 'convert' folks are feeling they're doing the Lord's work, but the Lord's work should be handled tactfully. You try to force your religion down someone's throat and you're going to have a backlash.

I'll stick with what I believe and how I worship and other folks are welcome to, as well. That's my theory.

I think the general cultural hostility to religion is a very new, recent thing -- a backlash against the rise of Evangelicalism. Sixty years ago, modern Evangelicalism held little influence outside the American South -- but since the late 1970s, it's expanded aggressively to the point where a whole generation of people has grown up thinking it's the sole and unchallenged voice of Christianity, and they judge all "religion" by its excesses. As someone who grew up a New England mind-your-own-business Methodist, I simply point out that there's plenty of honest Christianity in the world that has nothing whatsoever to do with those excesses -- and the militant atheist crowd accomplishes nothing constructive by tarring all believers with the same brush.