The full-dress "Boiled Shirt"

[George A.Bailey]

The classic evening shirt which has collapsed into extinction in recent times, sadly being replaced by the untraditional 'attatched' wing collar shirts.

This heavily starched, tunic collared, marcella ('Pique' in the USA, I believe) front, single-cuffed, stiff, buttonless evening shirt was a necessity (and remains so) for White Tie (occasionally Black Tie) in the early half of the twentieth century. A tall, stiff, detachable Wing Collar was attached to the tunic collar using two collar studs, whereas the front of the shirt (being too stiff for closure with buttons) was fastened using three or four shirt studs.

When White Tie was largely replaced by Black Tie in the 1930's, soft downturn collared shirts (usually pleated at the front) became popular for formal wear, and the 'Boiled shirt' (named so as the shirt was boiled before cleaning to remove the large amounts of starch) became uncommon.

What I would like to know is whether or not these shirts are still worn? They are cetainly still manufactured by some traditional tailors, and it is still a required part of White Tie and a smart alternative for Black Tie. Would you (or do you) wear 'attached' wing collar shirts with White Tie? Or would you stick to the traditonal alternative? It's a shame formal dress classics such as the Boiled shirt are slowly falling into disarray.

 

[Qirrel]

Btw, boiled front shirts aren't necessarily made with marcella, but often come with plain cotton bibs. I tend to stick with the detachable collar shirt for formalwear, but that is mostly because i have the choice of different collars that way. I actually much prefer the attached collar shirt over the band collar shirt, it is simply more comfortable.

 

[Lokar]

Outside of the UK they're pretty rare, and rare to find somewhere that launders them.

If I ever move back to the UK I'll likely stock up on a few.

Also, an interesting variation (I think I read a post by scotrace on this example) - a studless attached front, and it was instead done up at the back - by your valet, of course. Gives an even cleaner front!

 

[dhermann1]

I was able to find a short from T M Lewin ( www.tmlewin.com ) with the marcella front, but it has French cuffs and an attached stand up collar. I think it looks good, but the higher detachable collar and proper cuffs would be preferable. I think the type of shirt you describe is still available in the UK, but costs a lot more than what I paid for my Lewin shirt.

 

[George A.Bailey]

Btw, boiled front shirts aren't necessarily made with marcella, but often come with plain cotton bibs.

That's true. Although Marcella front Boiled shirts are a required part of White Tie. Plain cotton bibs (as I understand, correct me if I'm wrong) are usually worn with morning wear, most commonly Morning dress, but sometimes Black lounge (known as a 'Stroller' in the USA.) If one was to wear a wing collar with Black Tie (untraditional in the UK, though acceptable elsewhere), then both a plain or Marcella front is permitable.

 

[George A.Bailey]

I was able to find a short from T M Lewin ( www.tmlewin.com ) with the marcella front, but it has French cuffs and an attached stand up collar. I think it looks good, but the higher detachable collar and proper cuffs would be preferable. I think the type of shirt you describe is still available in the UK, but costs a lot more than what I paid for my Lewin shirt.

In the 1960's, some shirtmakers, in an attempt to revive the wing collar, began producing attached versions, which were usually both soft collared and fronted, closed at the front by buttons instead of studs (much to the dismay of many traditionalists).

Many younger men found this style more convienient and comfortable (the wing collar wasn't as tall as once it was, now about an inch shorter with small wings) and is now the norm on virtually every wing collar shirt available. Whilst I personally wouldn't ever be persuaded to wear an attached wing collar, I think it is much more acceptable when worn with Black Tie than White Tie.

TM Lewin are great shirtmakers, and always have been. Although they're one of the few tailors on Jermyn Street that have actually abandoned the shirt collar traditions. Some of the most traditional shirtmakers there, such as Turnbull and Asser (as far as I know) do not manufacture attached wing collar shirts (except if bespoke).

The one Boiled shirt I do own (I only need the one as I rarely wear formal dress), was made by Hawkes of Savile Row, now known as Gieves and Hawkes, which I picked up in a vintage clothes shop in Sheffield for only £55 (the re-starching was the biggest problem).

 

[George A.Bailey]

Also, an interesting variation (I think I read a post by scotrace on this example) - a studless attached front, and it was instead done up at the back - by your valet, of course. Gives an even cleaner front!

I've Never heard of this before, but is sounds interesting! Pictures would be great.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Be sure you don't miss that thread How to do It: Stiff Starch Grandma's Way

 

[Tomasso]

Turnbull and Asser (as far as I know) do not manufacture attached wing collar shirts (except if bespoke).

Sure they do.


http://www.turnbullandasser.com/formal.html

 

[Edward]

I still wear one for white tie - well, of sorts. The one break from the really hardcore tradition in mine is the attached collar. Stiff enough that it makes no difference in look; the practical difference is that I have the entire shirt dry cleaned for one fee, as opposed to faffing about with cleaning separate collars. I wouldn't go over to one of these for black tie - for that I prefer something I can launder at home. My white tie shirt came from the Vintage Shirt Company - now renamed Darcy Clothing...

http://www.darcyclothing.com/shop/shirts/marcella-front-wing-collar-evening-shirt-sh231.html

I'll start machine washing it at home when I get around to learning how to starch it properly....

 

[anon`]

Still haven't found any reason for white tie attire where I live, which is just as well: I've still yet to find an ensemble that will suit my admittedly-demanding standards.

Having said that, I love the half-breed style of black tie that existed--at least in the US--up into the Depression or so. Essentially a dinner jacket with trousers to match, worn with the owner's white tie apparel, presumably borrowed for the sake of frugality, convenience, or simple laziness. To that end, I very much desire to get a bib-front tunic to be worn with a separate collar, even if only to wear with a tuxedo. White waistcoat, as well. Perhaps if I should win the lottery, and land a clerkship over the summer...

Otherwise, I refuse to wear anything that is not a soft-front (Marcella or pleated) shirt with an attached turndown collar for black tie. If an evening calls for white tie, I would sooner not go than show up in an attached-collar shirt, of any style.

 

[Bugsy]

The classic evening shirt which has collapsed into extinction in recent times, sadly being replaced by the untraditional 'attatched' wing collar shirts.

This heavily starched, tunic collared, marcella ('Pique' in the USA, I believe) front, single-cuffed, stiff, buttonless evening shirt was a necessity (and remains so) for White Tie (occasionally Black Tie) in the early half of the twentieth century. A tall, stiff, detachable Wing Collar was attached to the tunic collar using two collar studs, whereas the front of the shirt (being too stiff for closure with buttons) was fastened using three or four shirt studs.

When White Tie was largely replaced by Black Tie in the 1930's, soft downturn collared shirts (usually pleated at the front) became popular for formal wear, and the 'Boiled shirt' (named so as the shirt was boiled before cleaning to remove the large amounts of starch) became uncommon.

What I would like to know is whether or not these shirts are still worn? They are cetainly still manufactured by some traditional tailors, and it is still a required part of White Tie and a smart alternative for Black Tie. Would you (or do you) wear 'attached' wing collar shirts with White Tie? Or would you stick to the traditonal alternative? It's a shame formal dress classics such as the Boiled shirt are slowly falling into disarray.

I still will wear a boiled front pique shirt with detachable collar when I'm wearing white tie and ties. It just seems to be the right thing to do.

 

[Qirrel]

That's true. Although Marcella front Boiled shirts are a required part of White Tie. Plain cotton bibs (as I understand, correct me if I'm wrong) are usually worn with morning wear, most commonly Morning dress, but sometimes Black lounge (known as a 'Stroller' in the USA.) If one was to wear a wing collar with Black Tie (untraditional in the UK, though acceptable elsewhere), then both a plain or Marcella front is permitable.

Plain cotton or linen is just as acceptable as marcella for full dress.

 

[Cobden]

I've worn them a couple of times for black tie, largely because my adored Marcella fronted (with attached stand and fall collar) DJ shirt has a rather horrific and permanent curry stain (which no dry cleaner, laundary nor attacks with a hammer could fix) and my finances not being up to replacing it.

 

[George A.Bailey]

Sure they do.


http://www.turnbullandasser.com/formal.html

Obviously I'd gotten that wrong then! I don't know what on earth my source was on that information.

 

[George A.Bailey]

I believe it was somewhat common for plain-front boiled shirts to be worn with a necktie and lounge suit in the early decades of the twentieth century. Some ultra-traditionalist may still do this, but I'm afraid my own comfort standards won't allow anything more than a soft downturn collar shirt for everyday wear.

Thomas Andrews, died during the sinking of the RMS Titanic, 1912.

Joseph Bruce Ismay, also on the Titanic, but survived. Died 1937

 

[Charlie Huang]

Boiled front shirts can have a marcella or plain cotton/linen bib. I think the former is more appropriate if you have a waistcoat that is not marcella and the latter is when you wear a marcella waistcoat. It makes sense to add some contrast otherwise it would just look bland and boring.

The number of studs at the front should be one or two. Three if you are very tall but no more.

Personally, you should never wear shirts with attached wing collars. Either go for the turndown (for black tie) or the full works (for both b&w tie). Unless you actually bespoke an attached collar that is high enough and stiff enough (would require starching eitherway) it is not worth the bother.

As per starching, Barkers are the only people in the UK that starches things anymore. For a shirt, it could be starched at home but you need to put in a lot of hard work into getting the front sufficiently stiff. For collars, it is even more difficult. The cost to do this via Barkers is £12 and £4.10 respectively.

The shirts can be bought RTW through Darcy's (neé VSC). However, the bib on theirs is, I found, too long and I had to personally shorten it myself by around 7" to get the bib end short enough to clear the trouser waistband so it doesn't go into the trousers (thereby eliminating the shirt bellowing problem when one sits down). You would probably need to bespoke the shirt if you want everything to be perfect.

OTOH, there are some firms that do a stiff marcella version (stiffer than normal marcella shirts for black tie) that doesn't require starching and this is for those who do not have access to Barkers (or find it too expensive). Again, these still have a very long bib and require alteration to get the bib to clear the trouser waistband.

I have been arguing that the wearing of stiff front shirts for morning dress is not forbidden but I think many feel it should only be consigned to evening dress. I find it maybe untraditionally to some but in all reason and logic I do not see why it cannot be done. Afterall, the difference is only in the stiffness and crispness of the front (which to all intents and purposes is not that noticible when waistcoat, tie, etc is worn over it and not very important in the whole scheme of things) and thus would not enter the realms of livery where there is a noticible mix-match to indicate that it is livery. Afterall, Poirot wore them and no one even batted an eyelid at that...

As to wearing them, I wear them around twice a year for when white tie is called for. The only discomfort is in the actual putting on (you'll understand why they needed a valet in those times...) and also on my left collar bone (for some reason).

 

[Cobden]

I tend to starch my own collars, though my marcella shirt is one of the no starch jobbies you mentioned, but oddly I too have the discomfort on the left collar bone. More annoyingly, as my marcella fronted shirt is a modern "one length fits all" jobby, and thus, being quite short man, sitting down can cause quite a bit of discomfort in the gentleman's region

 

[Qirrel]

As per starching, Barkers are the only people in the UK that starches things anymore. For a shirt, it could be starched at home but you need to put in a lot of hard work into getting the front sufficiently stiff. For collars, it is even more difficult. The cost to do this via Barkers is £12 and £4.10 respectively.

If you go bespoke or make your own shirt and get to choose what kind of interfacing to use in the collar, you could make starching a lot easier for yourself. I have made a couple of stand up collars myself, experimenting with different combinations of fusible/sew in interfacing and amounts of starch. I found that a combination of a stiff fusible interfacing combined with a sew in interfacing significantly reduced the amount of starch needed to get the look of a sew in interfacing/tons of starch type collar. Hence it is relatively easy to iron properly

 

[Tomasso]

If you go bespoke or make your own shirt and get to choose what kind of interfacing to use in the collar, you could make starching a lot easier for yourself.

Actually, a shirtmaker using ultra stiff interfacing in the collar and bib would eliminate the need for starching altogether.