Flat front dress shirts- your help?

[BigBrother]

About three years ago I deep-dove into the rabbit hole that is stiff flat front dress shirts- marcella, pique, plain, detachable collars, studs, the works.

I didn't end up finding what I wanted (and lost ~$600 to a horrible custom job) and put it on the back burner.

Well, I've returned . My requirements have changed somewhat and I was wondering if you all could help me potentially find a vendor for what I'm after!

(Down below are also my pre-existing thoughts and experiences with a number of vendors; should save you some of the recs.)

Criteria:

1. The distant (~4") spacing between stud holes that only flat front dress shirts seem to have.

2. That gorgeous flat-as-a-board look.

3. Attached collar. Yes, I'm going attached! I tried the detachable route but it introduces *so* many complexities and complications that it's just not worth it.

4. Would love to find both wing and flat collars.

5. If wing collar, not too high. That would be great for white tie (but basically wrong if it's attached anyway) but doesn't really work well with more modern evening wear.

6. Marcella or plain- would love either/both.

7. If possible, machine washable. I only mention this because many places seem to boast/take pride in the fact that they've developed a non-starch requiring version and it sounds cool. However, on further reflection, this isn't a huge requirement for me (dry cleaning would be fine) as long as it doesn't *require* starching.

So, what have I explored/purchased in the past?...

Budd: very nice guys. But the only attached option they provide lacks some of the points above. On recent inspection, though, this one might, *might* work. Need to look into it further:

https://www.buddshirts.co.uk/classi...le-cuff-wing-collar-dress-shirt-in-white.html

New & Lingwood: once again, I thought they failed on some of the points, but this shirt might qualify:

https://us.newandlingwood.com/mens-...te-ritz-wing-collar-classic-fit-evening-shirt

Ede and Ravenscroft: none of the dress shirts qualify.

Darcy Clothing: rather costume-quality, and their attached collars are too high.

Eton: this just popped up for me. I had looked at them in the past but didn't find what I needed. Now they do seem to carry what I'm after (including a flat front). Will inspect further.

There likely were others but these are the most salient ones to me. If I remember them I'll add them here (or as a reply if it doesn't allow updating.)

I have to say, typing this all out and looking up links again, I have more options than I remembered- since I've eased up a bit on my criteria, some of the vendors above likely actually do have what I'm after! Regardless, would love to get your recs if you know more. (For example, I'd love to find options that won't set me back ~$300 , but I do realize this might be what I have to pay.)

Thanks so much all!!!!!

 

[GHT]

There is a way of getting exactly the kind of shirt that you seek. It will take a little searching but can be well worth the effort. Look for the person, usually a lady, who has her own business making bespoke clothes to order. The mainstay of those sort of small businesses is the wedding dress, the graduation ballgown and bespoke garments for any other special event.

Once found you will become familiar with sewing pattern companies like Butterick, McCalls and Simplicity. There are companies that I could point you in the direction of, that trade in vintage sewing patterns. It's not difficult to find a period pattern.

When you have found that seamstress you will find that as you get to know one another, your preferential adjustments will be quite easy.

I have the good fortune to have my very own sewing fairy, in fact I married her, just in case someone else had their eye on her. She makes the most wonderful shirts for me. In fact she makes most of my clothes, such as wide bottomed baggy trousers with a turned up cuff, formal waistcoats/vests, floral (Aloha) shirts and so much more.

Search for bespoke wedding dresses, or ballgowns or any sort of unique bespoke garment and chances are, you will find your own sewing fairy.

 

[Peacoat]

I find it odd that you don't want your shirts to be starched. I wouldn't think of wearing either white tie or black tie with a shirt that wasn't heavily starched. May I inquire into your reasoning?

 

[BigBrother]

I think I was a bit unclear. There are many bib options these days that use a material that stays very flat and straight even when washing. If not, I’m happy to have a dry cleaner starch it. What I was trying to avoid was the traditional boiled-front style that requires the extreme level of hand starching to achieve the flat look.

 

[Lunger]

I have some details that might help you in your quest. My great-grandfather had formal shirts like the ones you are looking for.

First off, the actual shirt body. It was made of cotton that felt like silk but was 100% cotton. The most interesting detail of the shirt body was that it didn’t buttons up the front like we think of shirts doing today. You pulled the shirt over your head and it looked like a short night shirt! It had a Mandarin, Russian, whatever you want to call it collar with a hole in the front and back to insert a collar stud through to attach the detachable collar. The arms went to the wrist and ended in a band of fabric similar to the collar. This band was for his DETACHABLE, CONVERTIBLE CUFFS to be attached with cuff links. Finally the breast of the shirt was like a regular dress shirt but with only holes on either side of the breast placket to attach the detachable bib front.

What I want to tell you about detachable collar, Edwardian or Wing/Arrow Point, cuffs and bib is that they weren’t all cotton…..pique or otherwise. What was seen was, say the pique, but the backing behind that was either a linen (for the summer) or canvas (for the colder months). This backing is what gives the detachable pieces their characteristic stiffness!

My great-grandfather never had his shirt body starched (it was ironed by his gentlemen’s gentleman) only the detachable pieces! I hope that this helps!

Lunger