The first steps in a journey - Jeans durability, comfort, fit and compromises

[Zoro]

Regarding the fit, momotaro might be what you are looking for. It’s slim fit and very supple since they use Zimbabwe cotton (and believe me, I have big thighs from squat too lol). Some pics:

Momotaro was in my radar actually! I had seen an used pair for sale somewhere and was considering buying them, but then I lost the link and it's not like I'm on a hurry haha

 

[zebedee]

I like Pike Bros denim: I’ve had a pair for many years and I used to salt-wash them in the bath. I wash them in the machine now about once every two weeks if wear is frequent. Apart from that, Wranglers from Amazon tend to last and aren’t too expensive. For crazily regular wear without much washing: Carhartts or Dickies. They aren’t jeans, though.

I could only wear clothing that was going to announce me - olfactorily - to myself and others if I knew everyone else would be reekin’. In cold weather, I’ll happily wear jeans, etc., for two-three weeks, but in mild to hot weather I’d change any trousers I was wearing daily.

 

[Edward]

I enjoy the “boutique” brands for raw denim because i find some of the denim interesting and I like the variety of weights. Part of the reason your ck are comfy and now feel flimsy is because they are likely in the realm of 10 oz.
Fwiw i 100% DO NOT subscribe to the so called “boots theory” when it comes to denim. There is no way a $300 raw selvedge pair are going to outlast 7 pairs of $40 Levis When subjected to the same treatment.

It'd be an interesting experiment, though in truth I suspect the results will be different for each one of us, due to an individual's unique combination of personal chemistry, wear patterns, gait.....

I've never spent the really big money on denims, as jeans for me are kicking around the house / weekend wear, and very rarely something I'd go 'out' in. ("Dress jeans" is still a concept that baffles me, but then I'd opt for a suit more often than not if money were no object.) That said, I've not gone too cheap either. Mostly I'm happy with Wrangler 13MWZs, with the odd pair of fancier things thrown in here and there. Cathcarts in the £150 range are the most I've spent. The only reason my more expensive pairs really seem to have lasted longer is they get much less wear - certainly wouldn't lift them if I was going to be doing anything dirty, really.

The real difference I've noticed when it comes to wear for me is weight of the denim, and the cut. As a general rule, the lighter the denim and looser the cut, the slower they wear out on me at the point where they all go sooner or later - round the upper thighs, at the crotch. This is across a range from about 10oz to about 16oz, though - I've not as of yet dabbled with the really hefty stuff. Not opposed to trying a pair of 21oz one day, but I've yet to see those selling in my size at a price I'd be prepared to pay for jeans. Never say never, though.

Same, as I don't like rolling up the cuff, let alone if it is to showcase they are selvedge, as if people are actually going to notice it.

Sometimes I see people wearing Air Jordans and other hype sneakers still with the tag on and I feel it is basically the same concept.

The selvedge thing is interesting. I suppose it's a detail for people who really get into denim... and if you're gonig to pay the big money for the pricey stuff, most of us need to think it has some sort of detail that sets it apart. Not unlike being the most accurate A2 repro patterns, or the specifics of particular hides, really. Myself I don't care for the look of uncuffed denim. Bemuses my dad endlessly, he'll occasionally say "could you not buy them the right length?". I cuff mine irrespective of whether they're selvedge or not, it's just the look I like. I'm sure there are a bunch of the denimheads for whom it's signalling, though. The hip hop thing of having the tags on shoes and baseball caps confused me at first. Did they want people to think they were shop-lifted? I've heard of stranger things being considered marks of cool in subcultures. The saggy pant thing afaik came from imitation of the look of a man who has had his belt taken away from him while in custody. Not a million miles away from bashing your fedora to look like Al Capone's, I suppose. As it was explained to me, though, the tags-on thing is a signifier of authenticity in a world where a lot of folks are wearing counterfeit goods. When my wife was at school in Bristol in the 90s, the fashionable thing to have there was the "right" brand of disposable plastic carrier bag for your PE kit.... Kids, huh?

I got this 25oz deliberately on a relaxed fit; I had a tight fit 21oz previously tha literally bled my knees when new. Due to the wide thigh measurement it seems the fabric at the thighs rub against eachother.

I find it's the opposite for me: jeans that have a looser fit have less noticeable wear much less quickly on the inner thighs. I do suspect this is largely to do with an individual's personal posture and/or gait. All other things being equal, though, the denim on the lighter end of the scale in what I've had over the years has always worn much longer than the denim on the heavier end. Less momentum to build up pressure at points of friction, I suspect. I generally get two good years out of a pair of Wranglers before that wear begins to show, then another two or three after patching them.

 

[Zoro]

As it was explained to me, though, the tags-on thing is a signifier of authenticity in a world where a lot of folks are wearing counterfeit goods.

Yes, that's the logic. The funny thing is that fake shoes will also come with a fake tag.

It's not even an anti-theft or warranty tag either. It's either a brand tag, common to several sneakers, or the tag of a reseller that vouches for its authenticity (eBay, StockX).

 

[Edward]

Yes, that's the logic. The funny thing is that fake shoes will also come with a fake tag.

It's not even an anti-theft or warranty tag either. It's either a brand tag, common to several sneakers, or the tag of a reseller that vouches for its authenticity (eBay, StockX).

Yes, eBay have their "verification" process now. Not sure how it works... I sold a pair of rare LE Vans the other year that had never been worn (they'd only had even the paper stuffing removed once, from one of them, for the photos). Without realising it would trigger that system, I listed them as "as new condition" in the auction title (not the "condition" section), because they were. Ebay demanded I send them to them first for verification.... then sent them back to me because there was a ding in the box. Was more careful the next time and no problem... Meanwhile, their AI handling complaint regularly tells me that auctions for open NeoGermany's WWII-era leadership paraphernalia (NOT legit reproduction WW2 items for "living history", actual, present-day, far-right stuff) isn't a breach of the eBay policy that clearly forbids such items from being dols on the platform. If there was a convenient alternative, eBay would have died the death some years ago now.

 

[Zoro]

My personal eBay gripe and their customer service is that I used to buy retro football jerseys. I say "used to" because in the last few years this has exploded and the jerseys I could buy for 30-90€ now are being listed for 250-500€, which is prohibitive. I once bought one which turned out to be fake and I agreed with the seller to keep it but getting most of my money back (let's say I paid 50€, seller returned 40€).

In the process I pointed out the reasons why it was fake (different color tones, wrong materials, off centered printed crest instead of sewn...). Then I saw the seller put the jersey for sale once more, with same pictures. Obviously because it was fake and the seller had bought it in bulk. I reported it to eBay, attaching my conversation with the seller where they claimed they didn't know it was a fake but they do thanks to me. eBay thanked me for bringing it to their attention but did nothing, the seller probably is still selling that jersey to this day over and over and over again.

 

[Edward]

My personal eBay gripe and their customer service is that I used to buy retro football jerseys. I say "used to" because in the last few years this has exploded and the jerseys I could buy for 30-90€ now are being listed for 250-500€, which is prohibitive. I once bought one which turned out to be fake and I agreed with the seller to keep it but getting most of my money back (let's say I paid 50€, seller returned 40€).

In the process I pointed out the reasons why it was fake (different color tones, wrong materials, off centered printed crest instead of sewn...). Then I saw the seller put the jersey for sale once more, with same pictures. Obviously because it was fake and the seller had bought it in bulk. I reported it to eBay, attaching my conversation with the seller where they claimed they didn't know it was a fake but they do thanks to me. eBay thanked me for bringing it to their attention but did nothing, the seller probably is still selling that jersey to this day over and over and over again.

Ebay have definitely gone downhill on that front. I do believe it's all since they brought in AI to do so much of their frontline handling of this sort of thing.

 

[Peter Mackin]

I got suckered into the raw denim years ago,bought gustin,ironheart and got ****med by Lawless.Eventually flogged the 25oz ironheart as they were so uncomfortable. The 21oz felt OK but blew out and frayed at the crotch far earlier than any levis or wrangler I've ever bought.My favourite pair ever were a pair of Lee riders I bought years ago.

 

[Jon Crow]

Hey everyone!

I didn't know on which thread to post this so instead decided to just open a thread.

A big part of the reason I got into leather is not only looks but also durability: I'm a sucker for buying once, crying once (if only we actually bought once, tho…). Similar story with jeans/denim, I wanted some pair(s) that would stand the test of time.

As I was poor and/or ignorant in my 20s, I thought all jeans were basically equal when it came to quality, or at worst somewhat equivalent. I would buy my jeans from fast fashion stores, particularly C&A as their jeans were cheap (10-20€) and fit me great. As I got a job, progressed in my career and was able to spend more money, I started trying other (mall) brands such as Jack&Jones, Superdry, Boss or Levis. As you see, I went progressively up in price rather than straight up. Out of these, you might get surprised, but my favorites were Superdry as they fit me best, but all of these brands as well as the cheap fast fashion ones lasted the same, somewhere between one and two years until they all broke around the crotch/groin, so why would I pay more for brands when fast fashion offered the same? Sometimes I would have two pairs that I really liked, other times I would have a pair that I really liked (and broke) while my other pairs I didn't like as much and it would then kick in the quest to replace those I really liked.

All of this got halted during covid as obviously I wasn't going out as much. The pandemic also enabled working from home, thus I do not leave the house for half the day every day ever since, this meaning the time durability for my jeans increased to around 3 years (or so I would estimate). Around 2 years ago, as the at-the-time-favorite-pair broke, I decided to start the experiment: Let's buy a pair of expensive mall jeans and also a pair of far more expensive Japanese raw denim.

There's also a catch: I like slim fitting jeans. I got somewhat thick legs, so it might sound counterintuitive that I like them slim fitting (not skinny, hate the look and the feel). Most raw denim are more relaxed fitting, seemingly even the ones stated as tapered or even slim… But that's a problem I have in general. The way the jeans fit most of the models on online stores is different than how they fit me as models usually have skinnier legs than me. Anyway, what I'm getting at is that I was not ready to totally give up the slim look and that also implied that I wanted to still have a percentage of elastane for comfort and a more progressive change (aka I was not going to dive right into the deep end of 25oz raw denim).

I went for a pair of Calvin Klein jeans as they were on sale and I liked how they fit me as a replacement of the pair that had just broken (can't even remember the brand), with these CK being 99% cotton, 1% elastane. For the Japanese denim, I contacted Redcast Heritage who patiently helped me with my first raw denim pair and sizing recommendations, so I bought a pair of Oni 122S-BE 15oz Relax Tapered jeans, 98% cotton, 2% elastane.

The CK jeans were very comfortable since the beginning. The Oni were hell, I went down in size as per recommendations and simply buttoning them up was an absolute nightmare. I trusted Redcast Heritage, who told me they would stretch in a couple days and to wear them at home. Indeed, they stretched and the hell became just a bearable purgatory. I'll be honest: This was a power through for the sake of empirical research. And, eventually, they did stretch enough that buttoning them up became easy and stopped being one of Hercules' labours.

It's a year and a half later. As mentioned, I still work fully remote so I don't wear my clothes as often and as long as I did pre-pandemic. From a purely comfort perspective, I would wear the CK jeans without a doubt. From an aesthetic perspective, I would wear the Oni (and they have still not developed any of the fades, although it's not like I consider fades particularly aesthetically enhancing nor detrimental). If I had to wear only one pair for years, I would choose the Oni but simply because I don't think the CK will last enough to be worn for much longer.

In a further break down of the above, I would say I've worn the CK pair about twice as much as the Oni. Laziness and the desire for comfort can take the best out of me and they are simply comfier. With this in mind, it might not be a fair comparison as one has seen far more use despite having been bought at around the some time, but it is still proper evidence and data as it's not like I've babied them and had them as wardrobe kings. The Oni today feel sturdy, as new, not a hassle to put on and off, comfortable but still somewhat stiff and I suspect this is a stiffness baseline that is not going to go away (at least not in the near future).

The CK instead feel as if I was wearing nothing at all (Nothing at all… Nothing at all… Nothing at all…) but as I mentioned before, I do not expect them to last long. They were somewhatish stiffish when new but now they just feel flimsy. I even got a hole near a pocket, caused by my phone case. I've had small holes caused by keys, but by my phone? That's a new one! Also the edges of the front pockets are starting to peel on a couple areas, also a new one for me. Funny enough, I do have a small, almost unperceivable fade likely also from my phone's edge on the Oni pair. Photos below:

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CK pair: Both pics above of the hole made by my phone, big enough to comfortably fit a fountain pen through it​

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CK pair: Damage around the edges of the left pocket
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CK pair: Damage around the edges of the right pocket​

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Oni pair: Almost unnoticeable fading where the CK pair has the whole (only noticeable in good light and proper inspection)​

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Oni pair: Almost unnoticeable fading around the left pocket edges (only noticeable in good light and proper inspection)​

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Oni pair: Almost unnoticeable fading around the right pocket edges (only noticeable in good light and proper inspection)​

All in all, I think this is pretty much all I have. For many this would read as "look, that horse finally made it to the finish line!", but this is a journey that I've decided to document for two reasons:

The first one is that I haven't seen anyone really taking my approach. Everyone I've come through were either on "Raw denim is the way to go, I was blind and now I see, love at first sight" or "Raw denim is a **** to charge you 5x the price of any random mall jeans that are as good". On the price topic, I am still troubled/undecided on whether you'll spend the same money or not on several mall pairs that'll eventually last as long as a single pair of raw denim, but I still see things going for one or the other and I certainly do not see raw denim as something that should be the standard for everyone.

The second reason is that while I'm not fully sold on raw denim, I'm sold enough that I'm curious to get a second pair from some different brand, different style, 100% cotton, different weight, perhaps already used, perhaps custom (!). Because buy once cry once, amirite!? Anyway, this means I've taken enough conclusions to consider my journey as barely just started rather than already having finished abruptly.

On to the next one! Thanks for reading

I'm here in Europe also, I tried Uniqlo, heavy Japanese Selvedge denim and I like them, never broke the bank as I'm on a budget also, I've bought other stuff from them, a nice Chambray shirt almost identical to us navy shirt and a 100% lambswool submarine roll neck jersey

 

[Edward]

I'm here in Europe also, I tried Uniqlo, heavy Japanese Selvedge denim and I like them, never broke the bank as I'm on a budget also, I've bought other stuff from them, a nice Chambray shirt almost identical to us navy shirt and a 100% lambswool submarine roll neck jersey

I remember seeing the Uniqlo selvedge. Quality material and nicely put together, though the cut unfortunately didn't work for me - too low in the waist and too skinny in the leg. Had a few bits from them when they first opened in London years ago that I was well pleased with. Would buy from them again if the sort of thing I like came up through their range again.

 

[gainghiskhan]

I've been settled with Levi 541's for a while. Only buy the blends with 99% cotton (they sadly don't have a 100%). Pretty happy overall as far as comfort and durability, but the elastane notably loses it's shape overtime between washes. Anyone know of some good brands that have a similar or maybe slightly more relaxed fit through the thigh, but still tapered at the end?

 

[Arin666]

Currently wearing Brave Star and Unbranded , both 21 oz , and a Naked and Famous 13.75 oz for a lighter pair. Generally enjoy heavyweight denim . Have had Iron Heart 21 oz earlier (loved it), but passed it on since I grew out of them. Unbranded and Brave Star seems good value and pretty robust, especially compared to the premium IH stuff. Nice fades too.

 

[l0fielectronic]

Currently wearing Brave Star and Unbranded , both 21 oz , and a Naked and Famous 13.75 oz for a lighter pair. Generally enjoy heavyweight denim . Have had Iron Heart 21 oz earlier (loved it), but passed it on since I grew out of them. Unbranded and Brave Star seems good value and pretty robust, especially compared to the premium IH stuff. Nice fades too.

How does the Unbranded 21oz feel to you compared to Iron Hearts 21oz? I ordered a pair a couple of months back but they felt a lot thinner than my worn IH's.

I do like the Unbranded fit, have a lighter pair, but the 21oz didn't feel anything close to the IH, I mean they were easy to do up straight away. I returned them while wondering if with some washing they'd feel better. Still for the price they seem a good deal but the weight didn't seem to equate with the thickness.

 

[Harris HTM]

Don't like denim.

Then do not post in a denim thread. But then how are you gonna get the 20 postcount to offload your items? This forum is NOT what you think it is. Reported.

 

[Arin666]

How does the Unbranded 21oz feel to you compared to Iron Hearts 21oz? I ordered a pair a couple of months back but they felt a lot thinner than my worn IH's.

I do like the Unbranded fit, have a lighter pair, but the 21oz didn't feel anything close to the IH, I mean they were easy to do up straight away. I returned them while wondering if with some washing they'd feel better. Still for the price they seem a good deal but the weight didn't seem to equate with the thickness.

They did feel different from the Iron Hearts, but I guess thats mainly because of the texture of the fabric. IH is more soft and blanket like within a few wears, whereas UB is more rigid and slightly rougher to the touch. Weight wise, they are about the same. Having said that, UB has become very comfortable after a couple of weeks of wear - broken in well and moulded to the body at bend points. At the price point of 150 USD, its good value, but very obviously not comparable with the IH at 2.5 times the price.

 

[l0fielectronic]

Thanks.

Yes, they're great value I think and I think I've been priced out of IH even though they do last very well. I was just surprised at the difference in feel when I had both in hand. I may try a pair when I next need a pair.

 

[barnabus]

I've got a pair of Unbranded 21oz that I've had for years. I wore them lots and they broke in and softened up excellently, accruing ample sick fades. I might see if I can find them later and edit in a picture so you can see, if I cba.

But now I just wear cheapo indigo jeans from Matalan or Next because they're comfy and easy to wear and £20 jeans can be worn and washed in any circumstances with impunity.

 

[Edward]

I've got a pair of Unbranded 21oz that I've had for years. I wore them lots and they broke in and softened up excellently, accruing ample sick fades. I might see if I can find them later and edit in a picture so you can see, if I cba.

But now I just wear cheapo indigo jeans from Matalan or Next because they're comfy and easy to wear and £20 jeans can be worn and washed in any circumstances with impunity.

Similar here. I have a couple of pairs of selvedge pricier stuff (pricey for me, anyhow - Cathcart), which are lovely. What I wear just kicking around, though, now is mostly Wrangler 13MWZ. They're the right fit / look I'm after, and cheap enough that I can just wear them kicking about. If I spend suit-trouser money on jeans, I tend to treat them like suit trousers, so they don't get worn so often. With jeans being something I mostly just wear round the house or taking the dog out, I tend more to save the money for spending on stuff I'll wear out-out. With the Wranglers, it would be nice if they had that little selvedge tick; I don't wear jeans uncuffed, and I like how it looks. But it's not essential for me, and I've long learned that like for like selvedge doesn't last longer for me than non-selvedge. The one thing I wish they would do would be a much darker, traditional indigo colour, particularly if (and I know I'm an outlier here) they could do some voodoo on it such that it didn't fade at all.

 

[barnabus]

The one thing I wish they would do would be a much darker, traditional indigo colour

I don't know how well this cut approximates what you're after @Edward , but they clearly do do raw indigo jeans. In the US, at least.

https://www.wrangler.com/shop/wrang...igo-rigid-112375269.html?merchCategory=search

 

[Edward]

I don't know how well this cut approximates what you're after @Edward , but they clearly do do raw indigo jeans. In the US, at least.

https://www.wrangler.com/shop/wrang...igo-rigid-112375269.html?merchCategory=search

Oh! That's the same fit I wear - the original 1947 cut. I order all of mine direct from the US as they haven't marketed the Cowboy Cut here in the UK for a long time. I'll keep a curious eye on these in the hope that they eventually put them out in my 'big boy' size. Fingers crossed! Be interesting to try.