The decline of good parenting...

[Zach R.]

Now that, I agree with.

Who could you POSSIBLY be talking to that is so important during a meal?

 

[Lancealot]

Cell Phones

Not only in a restaurant but trying to check out in a line at any store.
To top it all off I went to get a haircut last week and the lady that cuts my hair was complainging about her last customer that kept the phone on his head the entire time she was cutting.

 

[Section10]

I don't think the decline of good parenting wholly revolves around the lack of "whippings" or "beatings" either, if that was solely what made kids what they are today(or from times past) then who knows what it would be like.

That is certainly true and the issue of unruly children is only a small part of a much broader and more fundamental problem that has infected modern society. I won't get up on my soap box tonight, though. It's too late. Perhaps tomorrow.

 

[JimD]

I think two of the biggest problems facing kids today; first they are raised by ?¢‚Ǩ?ìDay Care?¢‚Ǩ? and two the schools can not discipline. Consequently kids do not respect authority! Luckily I was raised in the day the Mom could afford to stay home and raise the family, with a firm but loving hand. In today?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s world very few can afford the luxury of one parent staying home to raise the kids.

The best solution I saw one day, for unruly kids, was while waiting to get a table at a restaurant. There was a Lady and her 3 kids in the lobby at the time. The kids were absolute terrors and the lady did nothing to stop them or make them behave! The Hostess was ready to crawl under the table because everyone in the lobby was looking at her to put a stop to the mayhem! When their table was finally ready the Manager of the restaurant came up and told the Hostess he would seat the party. Then he walked up to the Lady and very calmly asked the lady if she would like a high chair or a straight jacket for her kids! It was great the Lady actually kept her kids in line the rest of the night.

While I am sure the post will light some people off, you had to be there to appreciate the handling of the situation.

 

[Lena_Horne]

I essentially love everything Senator Jack had to say. Humorous, worrisome but dead on. Oh, and this is coming from a nineteen year old who feels the exact same way.

L_H

 

[PrettySquareGal]

The worst for me is when I'm out antiquing and parents let their children run around breaking things...and then, there will be another set of parents, and they will comment on "how cute" they are. Huh?! It's like some sort of shared denial.

 

[Panamabob]

How many are not parents? I'd bet I can guess.

 

[Senator Jack]

Asked by PanamaBob -
How many are not parents? I'd bet I can guess.

You mean as at this forum, posting to this topic? Okay, so you got me, but being a rational man I have to think, 'why would I want to go and bring one more person into this world who'd want to eventually slit my throat? There are enough out there already.'

But when my nephews were younger and whenever I took them out for the day I never let them get away with anything. Period. I recall that they had been in the back seat of the car once and had asked to go somewhere and I said 'No.' They kept up the whining, 'No fair, we never get to do anything, blah, blah, blah.' I finally jamed on the brakes, turned around and told them "Look, I have to take s**t from people all day at work, but I'm certainly not going to take s**t from you two brats. So if you ever want me to take you anywhere again, you better shut the **** up right now. When you're with me, I'm the boss. You might get away with this with your father but not me.'

There was silence for some time but I've enjoyed a great avuncular relationship with them ever since. No, I'm not a parent, but I think psychology dictates that you have to be brutally honest with people sometimes. Even kids.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Mycroft]

I am younger than most of you and always saw any physical punishment as wrong in any form. I was never hit or spanked though. My neighbor's kids growing up were spanked and somewhat left at home with the nanny and I think this is one of the reason they ended up both being expelled or close to it from school because of bringing a knife a school and threatening a teachers. Plus, their parents were very hands offish with the kids which is horrible. I have been through many situation where kids have just annoyed the heck out of me epecially on planes with the kicking of the seat, througinh fits, and yelling, I just deal with it and think the parent should try to contribute to the peace rather than be indifferenet to their child's action. Finally, when teaching my class I never think or carry out a physical punishment is the option, though it is against the rules too. I feel a problem is not only the child, but possible the parents or household. I just work with the problem to solve it.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

How many are not parents? I'd bet I can guess.

I'm not. But that doesn't mean I'm not able to judge poor parenting when I see it. If I said something like "how can those mothers not put on lipstick before leaving the house!" that's one thing. I'm sure I'd walk around in a moo moo if I had kids and maybe baby food in my hair. But when it comes to things like letting children run wild in stores, eating establishments, etc, that's another story.

 

[jake_fink]

Even the best behaved kids have bad days, and that day may come while they are out in public. I don't see a lot of posts about the times you were out and noticed a well-behaved child. Is that becuase it never happens? Because you don't notice children unless they're loud and rude? Because that's not something to complain and act sanctimonious about?

Some restaurants cater to a family clientele. If you don't like other people's families then go to an adult restaurant where only adults are present, quietly eating and minding their own business. Would it bother you if those adults lit up a cigarette? Isn't that as obtrusive as a child "saying AH" (It was a restaurant and not a dentist's office, wasn't it?)

If you really believe that children should be seen and not heard (except when having corporal punishment admistered), there's a nice little place called the Victorian Age you might like to visit. Just keep your table limbs covered.

 

[Senator Jack]

On the contrary, I ALWAYS say something to parents when I see their children are well behaved. And I compliment the children too. Funny how they appreciate it as much as bad parents detest 'the eye'.

Regards,
Senator Jack

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Even the best behaved kids have bad days, and that day may come while they are out in public. I don't see a lot of posts about the times you were out and noticed a well-behaved child. Is that becuase it never happens? Because you don't notice children unless they're loud and rude? Because that's not something to complain and act sanctimonious about?

Some restaurants cater to a family clientele. If you don't like other people's families then go to an adult restaurant where only adults are present, quietly eating and minding their own business. Would it bother you if those adults lit up a cigarette? Isn't that as obtrusive as a child "saying AH" (It was a restaurant and not a dentist's office, wasn't it?)

If you really believe that children should be seen and not heard (except when having corporal punishment admistered), there's a nice little place called the Victorian Age you might like to visit. Just keep your table limbs covered.

Actually I am very Victorian at heart. It's my favorite era next to the 50's. Am I repressed? No. Do I believe in self-restraint? Yes. Sanctimonious? Guilty as charged. I'm allowed a bad habit or two. I'm also realistic. As for adult restaurants, I have yet to see one that says "No shirt, no shoes, kids, no service."

And I personally do not believe in corporal punishment.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

On the contrary, I ALWAYS say something to parents when I see their children are well behaved. And I compliment the children too. Funny how they appreciate it as much as bad parents detest 'the eye'.

Regards,
Senator Jack

I do too! I was in a shoe store and a little boy of maybe five years old was trying to get past me. "Excuse me, please" he said in his little voice. I made a point to tell the mother how rare that is these days.

 

[LaMedicine]

Theories are fine. Practice is another thing. Children need to be educated primarily in the home on proper behavior and manners, but you can't always instruct them with just words. Examples set by their parents are the first things they learn about the world, whether for better or for worse.
What is most effective as discipline easily differs from child to child, even in the same family. Whether a word or two, or a look is enough, whether a couple of spanks as a last resort, are in order. The only thing parents can do, is behave themlseves impeccably, and show good examples to their children, and teach them to follow that example. How the child is disciplined when he/she disobeys is very much up to the parents, but it does need to be done with a cool mind and clear focus on what the true need of the child is, not just overcome by anger for disobeying. Parents are on a learning curve along with their children as they grow up, but still, they should know enought to keep things under control until the kids are mature enough to continue on their own.
Besides, verbal violence and terrorizing can be just as damaging, or on occasions, more than, physical violence.

Neither do I find it realistic to say that day care/schools are to blame. I think the parents are still responsible here, too. It is a matter of educating the children on acceptable manners at home/outside the home, showing their interest and caring in how their children are actually behaving/ doing in these places and not relegating responsibility that should be the parents' to day care/schools. If children have not learned what acceptable behavior is at home first, how are they going to behave outside the home? How do you expect that they know how to behave outside the home, when they don't know how to behave inside the home? And I don't think a stay at home mom is a cure all, either. Whether the mother is SAHM, or works, what is most important is that she cares, and knows, and will take the necessary time out for the child to let them know that they are loved and cared about. Even if the mother was home all the time, the child can end up ingnored in the most important ways.

Oh, sure, the best behaved kids have their bad days, but even then, I think their bad days are a bit better than the allowed-to-have-the-run-of-the-place-whenever-wherever kids. Also, obviously, even at family oriented restaurants, it doesn't mean that the kids can be let loose and disturb others beyond reasonable extent.

So, I think it all comes down to the the value and care parents place in the future and well being of their children, and help them acquire the skills and knowledge truly needed to become a considerate, respectable, and loving person, and to navigate through the world on their own.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Theories are fine. Practice is another thing. Children need to be educated primarily in the home on proper behavior and manners, but you can't always instruct them with just words. Examples set by their parents are the first things they learn about the world, whether for better or for worse.
What is most effective as discipline easily differs from child to child, even in the same family. Whether a word or two, or a look is enough, whether a couple of spanks as a last resort, are in order. The only thing parents can do, is behave themlseves impeccably, and show good examples to their children, and teach them to follow that example. How the child is disciplined when he/she disobeys is very much up to the parents, but it does need to be done with a cool mind and clear focus on what the true need of the child is, not just overcome by anger for disobeying. Parents are on a learning curve along with their children as they grow up, but still, they should know enought to keep things under control until the kids are mature enough to continue on their own.
Besides, verbal violence and terrorizing can be just as damaging, or on occasions, more than, physical violence.

Neither do I find it realistic to say that day care/schools are to blame. I think the parents are still responsible here, too. It is a matter of educating the children on acceptable manners at home/outside the home, showing their interest and caring in how their children are actually behaving/ doing in these places and not relegating responsibility that should be the parents' to day care/schools. If children have not learned what acceptable behavior is at home first, how are they going to behave outside the home? How do you expect that they know how to behave outside the home, when they don't know how to behave inside the home? And I don't think a stay at home mom is a cure all, either. Whether the mother is SAHM, or works, what is most important is that she cares, and knows, and will take the necessary time out for the child to let them know that they are loved and cared about. Even if the mother was home all the time, the child can end up ingnored in the most important ways.

Oh, sure, the best behaved kids have their bad days, but even then, I think their bad days are a bit better than the allowed-to-have-the-run-of-the-place-whenever-wherever kids. Also, obviously, even at family oriented restaurants, it doesn't mean that the kids can be let loose and disturb others beyond reasonable extent.

So, I think it all comes down the the value and care parents place in the future and well being of their children, and help them acquire the skills and knowledge truly needed to become a considerate, respectable, and loving person, and to navigate through the world on their own.

Very well said!

 

[Senator Jack]

That was worthy of Emily Post, LaMedicine! Good work.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Section10]

There are many children out there sorely in need of guidance and many parents out there who are unfit to raise hamsters much less be a parent. I know a young woman with two little girls who has the parenting skills of a hemlock stump and her girls reflect that. But I think to start fixing the blame on either one may be missing the mark.

Parents cannot give children what they themselves don't have. It's a deeper problem. Society and economics are destroying the family. Single parents, working mothers, household debt, a fundamental shift in morality and so on....all contribute to a general overall decline in families and relationships. Now none of these things are causes in themselves. They are all mere symptoms of a much deeper condition that would be inappropriate to discuss on this forum. It is wrong to fix too much blame on people who often enough are little more than inept victims themselves.

 

[LaMedicine]

There are many children out there sorely in need of guidance and many parents out there who are unfit to raise hamsters much less be a parent. .......It is wrong to fix too much blame on people who often enough are little more than inept victims themselves.

Oh, that's true enough. But there has to be some starting point, and since babies are, usually, first cared for at home by the parents, I'd say that even in this time and age, it's best to start there. If the parents themselves have not had the necessary "education" in becoming one, then, they should be given the chance to learn some basic skills and values. Whether it be society in general, or the immediate community, or the family one grows up in, that actually teaches these skills and values, obviously, it isn't something that one is born with, nor is it something that comes naturally to you once you're a certain age. I have always told myself that I have to "learn" in being a parent while my children were growing up. Although single parents and working mothers may be at a disadvantage, I don't think that just being so means that they don't have the skills and knowledge in becoming a good parent. On the contrary, if there is only one parent, then that person may work hard in being a good parent because there is no partner to share the job. And I also imagine, some of the people you mentioned would be a bit peeved in being called inept victims themselves...There often are those who choose the easy way out (parenting is not an easy job), or put their own pleasure ahead of everything else, regardless of what they know/don't know/have/not have.
Personal interaction is what influences people most, so no matter what kind of agenda the government/general society may have, in the end, it's up to the individual. And as such, while there are those who are sorely in need of guidance, those of us who understand what/how things are should do our best respectively to touch other people's lives.

 

[Section10]

Reply to LaMedicine

I agree with what you are saying about what ought to be happening, but it is idealistic. It should happen, but it obviously is not. If the parents have not been taught at home or by people around them, how will it get done? Should we turn to the government? Personally I would not trust the government to raise hamsters. Government already has its nose into too many places.

Regarding single parents and working mothers I recognize that there are many who are not in those positions by choice and they are doing their best to be the parents and examples they ought to be. I take my hat off to them and if any were offended, I submit my apology.

I don't think society in general or governments are specifically implimenting a program to destroy families. I just think it is a result of the way the world has gone. In a sense we are all victims because like it or not we are all a part of it. The failures of society lie within its very makeup. We cannot change that, but we can change ourselves to an extent......if we believe it's worth it.