The Cavanagh Club

[Dreispitz]

Liner prints

Right, I just compared my few at hand Cavanagh liner prints. The early ones altogether feature a thicker layer of all colours. The more we progress in time the individual colour shifts are thinner, thus they appear lighter and less bright. Again, this might have to do with "progress" in printing technology.

It is like in porcellain. Early french 18c Vincennes ware had a distinct, thick guilded frame designs around the underglaze blue paintings. The blue blured into the white soft-paste body of the vessel and one tried to hide this with a thick layer of gold. Very nice effect that disappeared later, when the manufacture moved to Sevre and the more so, once the French werer able to produce hard-paste porcellain (compare Germany, alredy in 1708!). fftopic:

 

[Brad Bowers]

A big Dobbs Homburg with taped seam and 5-Lobe bow.

Ah, I'd forgot about that one! So, yet another inconsistency to factor in, if possible. We've now seen Dobbs hats with two,three, and five lobes. Was this meant to be an indicator of quality? Interesting, interesting.

I'm not interested so much in pinpointing dates with accuracy, though that would be nice. I'm more interested in divining the evolution of the Hat Corp. hat lines, and this is part of it.

Thanks, rlk.

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

Right, I just compared my few at hand Cavanagh liner prints. The early ones altogether feature a thicker layer of all colours. The more we progress in time the individual colour shifts are thinner, thus they appear lighter and less bright. Again, this might have to do with "progress" in printing technology.

That's a good assumption, Dreispitz. Cost may be a factor as well, since as time goes on, cost-cutting measures are introduced, so they may have moved to a cheaper and easier printing method.

This is why Cavanagh offers a good study for this kind of investigation, since the changes to the liner tips are more subtle over the years.

Any chance you can document your early liner tips with some good photos, Dreispitz?

Brad

 

[Brad Bowers]

Do we have reference for monochrome Cavanagh or Crofut Knapp liners? Did other companies start using polychrome liner prints, at the same time?

However, Cavanagh changed the actual print design over time. With the change of the screens used, the paint might have been changed, as well. This could be a clue for dating. PoohBang´s liner tip of his straw is done in black and gold. The design is less crisp and legible than the earlier ones. Could also be a different printing technique, though.

The only monochrome Cavanagh liner tips I've seen were in top hats, where it would add an understated elegance, and as tip stickers on other specialty, casual hats that didn't have liners. They were stamped gold.

There are some monochrome tips from early C&K and Dobbs, but for the most part they used color. Here is the only information I have on the C&K printing process.

Since hats were invented the trade-mark of maker or retailer had been simply an advertisement and no serious attempt had been made to turn it into a decoration that would add to the attractiveness of the hat until C&K perfected an original method of color printing. The use of appropriate designs made by artists of ability untrammeled by hidebound traditions of hat printing, plates engraved by artistic mechanics whose best work was used for fine illustrations, reproduced in the hats by the most expert presswork in the C&K printing plant, in combinations of harmonious colors, resulted in the revolution of this important branch of hat-manufacturing.

That's from 1924, and this process had been in place a while. Since Cavanagh dates to September 1928, they could take full advantage of this process from the beginning.

PoohBang's is a modern tip sticker, post-1972. It's about the same as you see with my 2007 Cavanagh shown here:

Brad

 

[Dreispitz]

Hm, I thought that Crofut Knapp must have started colour printing.

Right, here are the prints in following time line: ca. 1929/30, late 40ies, mid 50ies and mid 60ies



Do note the visible seam stitching around the centre medallion in the last picture!

 

[Brad Bowers]

My "Not a hat, but an neat part of Cavanagh history" arrived today!

Here is the customer card box. The front flipping down and giving access to the cards is what clinched it for me. The eBay photos didn't show the front part open, but I could see the piano hinge and knew that's what it did.

A 3"x5" index card fits the width perfectly on each side. However, the inside height is only 2.5", so if the cards lean back, they fit, but not standing straight up. I guess it's possible they used 2.5"x5" cards.[huh]

Top of the box, outside lid:

Inside of the lid:

Open box:

I will use this for my customers' cards, and since I'm my own best customer, I'll fill one out for myself.lol

Brad

 

[billysmom]

Cavanagh card box

Brad - that is certainly unique and I can't think of a more deserving home for it!

I just purchased my first Cavanagh on eBay last night!

I can't wait for it to arrive!

Sue

 

[Dreispitz]

My "Not a hat, but an neat part of Cavanagh history" arrived today!

Brad

I wonder, how long it will take until we find the whole shop interior on the bay? lol lol

Telling from the size of the box, there should be some Cavanagh 50 and 100 around, that did not make the way on our hats.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I wonder, how long it will take until we find the whole shop interior on the bay? lol lol

Telling from the size of the box, there should be some Cavanagh 50 and 100 around, that we do not jet wear.

I'm keeping my eyes out, both for the shop and the hats!lol

Hat Corp. introduced the Fifty and One-Hundred Custom Made lines in both Cavanagh and Knox in 1955, though I use the term "introduced" loosely, because Cavanagh already had a $100 hat.

In 1954, the top-of-the-line Cavanagh fur felt snap brims were the $40 and the $100 hats. The forty-dollar hat was a blend of fur from the back of the Argentinian hare and the belly of a North American beaver. The $100 was pure beaver.

I don't know if the Fifty replaced the $40, or if it was just an addition.

Brad

 

[Dreispitz]

I'm keeping my eyes out, both for the shop and the hats!lol

Hat Corp. introduced the Fifty and One-Hundred Custom Made lines in both Cavanagh and Knox in 1955, though I use the term "introduced" loosely, because Cavanagh already had a $100 hat.

In 1954, the top-of-the-line Cavanagh fur felt snap brims were the $40 and the $100 hats. The forty-dollar hat was a blend of fur from the back of the Argentinian hare and the belly of a North American beaver. The $100 was pure beaver.

I don't know if the Fifty replaced the $40, or if it was just an addition.

Brad

Do you, by any chance, know what felt mixture the other hats, like 25$, etc., were made of?

 

[Brad Bowers]

Do you, by any chance, know what felt mixture the other hats, like 25$, etc., were made of?

Not yet. I don't even know the percentages for the $40. The lower-priced hats were either all hare, or perhaps they had a decreasing percentage of beaver blended. I think some of the differences were in the details we've discussed recently, like the piping around the liner tips, and the embossing around the sweatband, as those seem to be in the $25 range and up. Maybe in the $20, depending on what year it was made.

Brad

 

[Dreispitz]

Cavanagh Peachskin Effect

Cavanagh felt comes very close to Italian white peaches.
In terms of pliability, the felt wins .... ugh! *yucky* :coffee: :fing28:

 

[duggap]

Get those peaches off that hat. Now everytime you wear it, the fuss will come through and cause your head to itch.

 

[Matthew Verge]

Mmm, peaches and hat.

 

[rlk]

Old Cavanagh Bowler

Completely rigid everywhere like a hard hat and rather short(and nearly flat) brim and 5-1/8" crown. I think the sweat was replaced about fifty years ago and they glued in the liner. The stamp under the sweat is of an older style than any of the other Cavanaghs I've seen. The felt is all in outstanding condition.

 

[Brad Bowers]

That's a wonderful Cavanagh Derby, rlk!

I'm not sure I concur with the replacement sweatband, but it could be. I'd be surprised they put a size tag back on it. Is there anything printed or stamped on the sweatband? The sweatband bow and reed cloth are mighty similar to what are on my 1920s Dobbs Derbies. Reeds were using tape, the plastic-coated cloth, by at least the late-'50s. Many of the details seem to point to a much older sweatband. What makes you think it was replaced?

The catalog label is indeed an older style used by Hat Corp. around the late-'30s into the early-'40s, as near as I can tell. Maybe earlier.

As for the glued-in liner, that does sound like a later adjustment. My '20s Dobbs Derbies all have the liners just set in place in the hat, and not stitched or glued. Probably to facilitate easy removal for summer wear, I guess.

5 1/8" is a nice crown height for a derby.

Another nice jewel!

Brad

 

[rlk]

Thanks Brad. The sweatband has no markings of any kind. The size label(paper) is held on by a piece of clear cellophane tape(still clear so must be later) could be the original tag though. The sweatband is a little over 1-3/4"
and has a double row of fairly wide black fabric where it is sewn to the hat. The glue job on the liner is completely homemade in style-gloppy and irregular spacing. The sweatband is somewhat generic so I can't really say for sure. Liner logo has very nice metallic gold coloring and the fabric is thicker than my other Cavanagh liners.

 

[Cigarband]

The size tag has fallen off my Cav. Any suggestions as to what type glue to use to reapply it? Thanks.

 

[jamespowers]

The size tag has fallen off my Cav. Any suggestions as to what type glue to use to reapply it? Thanks.

I am guessing you mean the paper type that glues behind the sweatband?
Go simple with something like that. Some Elmer's glue sparingly applied should be good enough. No need to break out the super glue or anything like that.

 

[Viper Man]

The size tag has fallen off my Cav. Any suggestions as to what type glue to use to reapply it? Thanks.

Why do you feel the need to re-attach it? [huh]