The Bowler or Derby Hat

[Steph]

What we find works the best is actually weathering strip. It's soft and thick enough to be effective and it has an adhesive on the back, preventing it from falling out. For someone with a long oval head, cut two medium size pieces (or however much you need), peel back the interior band and lay them on the sides for the adjustment. It should help you a bit.

Nothing like jumping right in, Cedric! Thank you!!

Your idea here being not to bother structurally at all? My thought was that the front/back would take care of itself from wearing.

Does the width at the side (the hat itself, not the weatherstripping) have any real visual effect, e.g., would a practiced eye see "hat too wide"? That wouldn't affect me wearing it, unless it makes the hat look goofy. My thought that brims sort of dispense with that idea.

Thanks again!

 

[Meyer The Hatter]

Appreciate the welcome! It may rumple the interior band (especially if it's leather), but it shouldn't affect the way it looks from the exterior. Lay the weatherstrip along the sides to test it out before peeling the adhesive and making it "permanent."

 

[Steph]

Appreciate the welcome! It may rumple the interior band (especially if it's leather), but it shouldn't affect the way it looks from the exterior. Lay the weatherstrip along the sides to test it out before peeling the adhesive and making it "permanent."

Brilliant!

Thank you! I do just happen to have some weatherstripping handy...

 

[mayserwegener]

Okay. The eagle landed today and I'm quite pleased!! Markings and more fotos as promised. I have a feeling this one's a great find!














Under the sweatband (which by the way, is the most comfortable sweat I've ever felt inside of a hat!)

Fantastic! Thanks for the additional photos. It has English on the Sweatband so probably an American source. Is there a Union Stamp behind the Sweatband?

 

[Brad Bowers]

Okay. The eagle landed today and I'm quite pleased!! Markings and more fotos as promised. I have a feeling this one's a great find!

Under the sweatband (which by the way, is the most comfortable sweat I've ever felt inside of a hat!)

The only thing that stands out to me is that the Duplicating Number is stamped and follows the pattern of Crofut & Knapp from this period. That's nothing definitive, as other manufacturers may have used a similar numbering system, and I haven't seen enough labels from other manufacturers to know. But the "Exxxxxx" system definitely mirrors that of CK.

Brad
~The Hatted Professor

 

[Steph]

Hey Brad, thank you so much for your help. I do appreciate it.

What are your thoughts on any particular protective spray or leather protectant for the vintagish Dunn bowler above? Can I stiffen it beyond what it is (pre-emptively, I suppose)?

And what about rain/weather? Just wear it? I really can't see always carrying some plastic bag around; if I have my bag, that's different, of course. While it may be something I like and care for, there's no point in leaving the Louboutins to decorate the closet or the hat to decorate the box. If it wears out, I'll replace it.

I guess I'm asking for musings on day-to-day operations for a perfect, vintagish, bowler that will see a lot of use. I don't mind babying it, but if I must treat it like a Fabergé egg, then I will sell it and get one that is more battle ready.

Thoughts, anyone?

 

[mayserwegener]

I wouldn't worry about it much. It's latter so probably not as stiff as some older Stiff Felts. I actually prefer flexible pre WWII Stiff Felts. Also the lighter in weight the better. I would avoid getting it soaked but it should hold up well under most weather conditions. If you need to let it dry avoid heat.

Also regarding spacers I recommend felt strips or cork spacers. Not a fan of weather stripping.

 

[Steph]

Thanks for the heads up, MW!

Oddly enough, I have the weatherstripping, so I'll do a dry run with it.

Do you have a source you recommend for the felt or cork?

Also, anyone have any thoughts on a hat block? Stretcher? Is there something that I can get made to the shape of my head, not to stretch, but to hold and maintain a hat? I think that would be ideal, really. That way the hat sits "on" my head at all times.

I think I will get a Sarah's Hat Box Adventurebilt, unless someone has another recommendation? Her box is $55.00. Yes, I know there are vintage boxes available on eBay, but getting something vintage to worry over a bit while I worry over the vintage hat seems silly.

 

[mayserwegener]

You can buy small black felt sheets at hobby stores like Michaels or Hobby Lobby. You cut felt in strips and they can be layered. I often find felt strips behind sweatbands of vintage hats.

If you stretch too much there will be distortion. I find this often with old Stiff Felts. It's not a big problem visually but I tend to notice such things. I usually will not do much stretching. I might steam along the outer band area and self conform (place on head and let cool) but this often doesn't stick so I might keep a light weight stretcher (Hat Jack or similar) on it for a few months. If a Stiff Felt has been rounded the only solution is to use spacers on the side. Some of the later Stiff Felts have self conforming sweatbands. Stiff Felts were being taken over by Soft Felts so the Hat Companies were always trying to make them lighter and more flexible. Your Dunn is later so it should be more self conforming but it seems it might have been rounded.

I buy hat boxes in bulk (50) because I have a lot of hats. Someone here might know where you can buy singles. I would get one that is for men's hats. They usually have a hat holder (hat is stored crown down) and open like a case (rectangular with plastic handle).

 

[Steph]

Here's a thought, as I mention in the Stetson Handy thread, the Handy specs at 3 ¾" high with a 1 ⅞" brim.

This Dunn & Co, from earlier in this thread,

to which I'm referring, is (I think) 4.5" high, and that brim at the front approaches the 1 ⅞" of the Handy.

The question is this: What are the odds of me finding vintage bowlers/derbys (never mind the size issues) with similar measurements? Is that such an odd size that it isn't worth my time to look?

 

[mayserwegener]

You might find a vintage Stiff Felt with a lower crown height but it might take some time. I don't think I have any with that short of a crown.

 

[Steph]

You can buy small black felt sheets at hobby stores like Michaels or Hobby Lobby. You cut felt in strips and they can be layered. I often find felt strips behind sweatbands of vintage hats.

If you stretch too much there will be distortion. I find this often with old Stiff Felts. It's not a big problem visually but I tend to notice such things. I usually will not do much stretching. I might steam along the outer band area and self conform (place on head and let cool) but this often doesn't stick so I might keep a light weight stretcher (Hat Jack or similar) on it for a few months. If a Stiff Felt has been rounded the only solution is to use spacers on the side. Some of the later Stiff Felts have self conforming sweatbands. Stiff Felts were being taken over by Soft Felts so the Hat Companies were always trying to make them lighter and more flexible. Your Dunn is later so it should be more self conforming but it seems it might have been rounded.

I buy hat boxes in bulk (50) because I have a lot of hats. Someone here might know where you can buy singles. I would get one that is for men's hats. They usually have a hat holder (hat is stored crown down) and open like a case (rectangular with plastic handle).

Thank you for your thoughts! After reading this entire thread, I figured you had one or two hats. Frankly, I should just buy one from you. HA!

I'm not looking to stretch, per se, just maintain. I don't *think* it has been rounded, it's certainly more oval. Honestly, looking at the Hat Jack, I could get a largerone, and sand the ends into the shape of my head. Now there's an idea! I wonder if I could send it (or maybe he has them) to Art at VS and have him shape it for me?

 

[mayserwegener]

I think Stiff Felts should be a slightly larger size so you can pad if needed. For me ideal is when there is very little sweatband pressure. This is why some German and Austrian Stiff Felts have a reed on the outer edge of the sweatband. It creates separation so a more comfortable fit. You could trace the inside opening and make a wood block (sweatband width). I think it should be ok without one as long as you didn't have to stretch it.

 

[mayserwegener]

Here is a late 19th Century German Stiff Felt of mine with similar dimensions. This was a rare find and also a tiny size.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/46-g-m-hutfabrik/#entry925

 

[NewJack]

Fantastic! Thanks for the additional photos. It has English on the Sweatband so probably an American source. Is there a Union Stamp behind the Sweatband?

Thanks for the feedback! But no union stamp. It was a well kept piece for sure!!

 

[Bob Roberts]

Here is a late 19th Century German Stiff Felt of mine with similar dimensions. This was a rare find and also a tiny size.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/46-g-m-hutfabrik/#entry925

Love that brim flange!

 

[mayserwegener]

Love that brim flange!

Thanks! It also has a great Bat Wing Bow but it's covered by the brim. This is amazing hat IMHO! It's rare for me to purchase a hat I can't wear but this one I had to have in hand.

 

[Bob Roberts]

Thanks! It also has a great Bat Wing Bow but it's covered by the brim. This is amazing hat IMHO! It's rare for me to purchase a hat I can't wear but this one I had to have in hand.

I can certainly understand why you needed to have this hat.

 

[Steph]

You might find a vintage Stiff Felt with a lower crown height but it might take some time. I don't think I have any with that short of a crown.

Got it, thank you.

It would be a damn sight easier if ALL of the sellers provided correct measurements up front. I get tired of asking.

 

[Steph]

Here is a late 19th Century German Stiff Felt of mine with similar dimensions. This was a rare find and also a tiny size.

http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/46-g-m-hutfabrik/#entry925

Beautiful hat!

Maybe I'll start paying attention and see what there is to see.