The Bowler or Derby Hat

[mayserwegener]

Why do you think it's a hat? What does the inside look like?

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Why do you think it's a hat? What does the inside look like?

After finding it in a box lot bought at auction some yrs ago I thought it might just be a hat form used to make cheap party hats.

 

[mayserwegener]

Doesn't make sense to me but I guess it's possible.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Brad Bowers identified it as a trumpet mute so it doesn't matter now.

 

[mayserwegener]

Makes sense regarding a mute. I found this so it also has a Derby connection.

http://www.all-brass-instruments.com/brass-73770-Antique-Trumpet-Derby-Mute-Inscribed-Jazz-Big-Band

 

[Hurricane Jack]

That's interesting & it's obviously it. Thank you!

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Found this description with another listing:

"The Bellemont Hat" shown here is actually made of sturdy aluminum. Probably an advertising piece, these hats are used to mute trumpets, giving the instrument a "buzz" or "jazzy sound". I've had one of these before, and it seems that this one could also be worn as a hat. It was made by the Western Hat & Mfg. Company of Milwaukee Wisconsin. The company was started in 1904. Hard to say how many of these they made, because the big label on the front of the derby has held up very well. Perhaps this was used as early advertising, or quite possibly the company had its own jazz bands. This is the only one I've seen with the simple felt headband glued inside. As always, hat model Carla is not included.
This is a very fun piece. It is made of sturdy aluminum, and with very minor dings and wear, it was well used and is in good condition. The derby measures 10 1/2" long, 9 1/8" wide, and 4" high. Circumference is about 22 3/8", making this a size 7 1/8th - should you feel inspired to wear it..."

Won't take up any more forum time for this...thanks again!

 

[buler]

The latest incarnation can be bought on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Humes-Berg-St...TF8&qid=1450464932&sr=8-3&keywords=derby+mute

B

 

[RJR]

Very interesting,Jack,new one on me for sure.

 

[Jayessgee]

Hello.
I am new to this place so if I step out of line or misplace this, correct me gently, please. My son has his own style and has been wanting a derby, (since I am an American, I shall use that term for the hat as I understand the breakdown of usage. Correct me if I am wrong). Well, we got him one for Christmas. I saw a second that so intrigued me I got a second. I just may wear the thing being my own kind of guy as well.
The two hats were a Dobb's 5th avenue and another a "Scott & Co. Hatters to HM the king".
Both were antiques ( I think). The Dobbs at least had a date, 1938 inside.
I don't know when the Scott hat was made, or it's quality.
NOTE. My computer is acting up so I am going to post what I have to keep from losing it, do a restart and come back to finish this.

 

[alanfgag]

Welcome to the village, Jayessgee! You'll want to share your new derbies to the stiff hat thread.

 

[RJR]

Welcome,Jayessgee.We look forward to seeing what you've found.

 

[Jayessgee]

Hello.
I am new to this place so if I step out of line or misplace this, correct me gently, please. My son has his own style and has been wanting a derby, (since I am an American, I shall use that term for the hat as I understand the breakdown of usage. Correct me if I am wrong). Well, we got him one for Christmas. I saw a second that so intrigued me I got a second. I just may wear the thing being my own kind of guy as well.
The two hats were a Dobbs 5th avenue and another a "Scott & Co. Hatters to HM the king".
Both were antiques ( I think). The Dobbs at least had a date, 1938 inside.
I don't know when the Scott hat was made, or it's quality.
NOTE. My computer is acting up so I am going to post what I have to keep from losing it, do a restart and come back to finish this.

Looks like new folk don't get to edit so, I'll add on to it this way.
A tale of two hats...
As described above, I got two Derby's in the American vernacular. A Scott & Co. Hatters to HM the king and a Dobbs 5th avenue.
The Dobb's is a 7-1/8 in fine condition, maybe too fine. Is it a new one? On that note, in my original comment as quoted above, I mistakenly gave the year 1938 to this Dobbs hat. That was the Scott. More on that below. I just don't know anything about these but, I do frequently wear cowboy hats so I'm not a total stranger to felt and consider $42. a good price for this hat. A natural leather sweat band or so it appears to me, and the lining is sewn in. If not actually new, it has never or at least but seldom worn. One thing that makes me think this is a newer hat is the size tag in it. It is of a modern style. For another thing, I understand 7-1/8 to be a rather large size for an antique hat.
The Scott Hat now is verifiably an antique. It is dated inside as having been made specifically on 22 June, 1938. I paid $32 for this hat. One problem that evinced itself on receipt was that the sweat band was hanging by a thread. It was neither described as such or shown in the listing photos. However, this did give me a good opportunity to look at the insides. The lining is glued in but one side is loose revealing 4 quartering straps of some sort, (stiffeners?) under the lining. Again, the sweat band is leather and it was sewn in. The seller is out till after Christmas but responded that he would look into the cost of a repair. Frankly, I will keep this hat even if he can't or won't offer a repair. I would try to get him to give me 1/3rd refund since I will wear the hat. It is size 6-7/8. Apparently, I am a throwback because I wear a 6-5/8 to 6-3/4. I have always had a heck of a time finding a good hat that fits. This Scott hat is too big for me. I will likely attach a thicker leather liner inside the original and glue it back in, unless of course this thing has some serious collector value. From some research i have down, it seems these derbys are too common and not much desired except in larger sizes to be worth much. Any chance this brand is worth something? If not, I won't sweat repairing it any way I can to make it serviceable.
(NOTE: I just now found the "edit" and "upload file" buttons.)

Now to figure out how to post pictures...
Photobucket thumbnails?
The Dobbs...





The Scott Co.

 

[Brad Bowers]

The Dobbs isn't "new" new at all, as it dates to the late-1950s/early-1960s period. I'd say the Scott is a few decades older.

Brad
~The Hatted Professor

 

[Jayessgee]

Thanks for the in-put. Nice to know the Dobbs is a true vintage piece. That will definitely appeal to my son. However, the Scott is dated very precisely- 22 June 1938

 

[bowlerman]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mayserwegener]

Deutsche Industrie, size 54cm, from the Gotisches Haus (Gothic House) Bad Homburg , Germany hat collection, probably early 1900s. I am not sure of the maker but it's really fantastic.

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

That flat top melone really is something special. Easily one of my favorites that's been posted on this forum.

 

[ofcoursemyhorse]

Received this fantastic early 1900's derby yesterday.

 

[mayserwegener]

Definitely a Fantastic find!

Thanks! I have some others from the Gotisches Haus (Gothic House) collection that I think your are going to like too.