The Bowler or Derby Hat

[AEH]

I am not aware of the hat company (G. M. Hutfabrik) that made it. I have to believe it is early 1900s (1910 to early 20s?) and of the highest quality. I will have to do some investigating and see if I can turn anything up.

Great bowler, or rather melone
I like that brim, is there a special designation for that type of brim?
I could seriously consider to wear a bowler like this one.
Thanks for showing.

 

[mayserwegener]

Great bowler, or rather melone
I like that brim, is there a special designation for that type of brim?
I could seriously consider to wear a bowler like this one.
Thanks for showing.

Yes Melone. I am not sure about a special designation regarding the brim type. Someone else might know. It is possible this one might be slightly older (late 19th century?) than I previously thought.

 

[Dreispitz]

I am not aware of the hat company (G. M. Hutfabrik) that made it. I have to believe it is early 1900s (1910 to early 20s?) and of the highest quality. I will have to do some investigating and see if I can turn anything up.

What does the lable tell us? "Deponirt" (correctly spelled, today "deponiert") meanes registered. It was in use for "regirtered trade" (maybe "trade mark") in Germany, Austria? in the 19c. => could be an indication for pre 1900.

Where does the hat originally come from? It now came from a German Ebay source, but is it originally German?


I tried to get a better close-up of the stemp:



So, what do we have?

There is a phonenumber: XXXXXten (indication of town) Tel. (Phone) 61 or 51. Phone networks were established in Germany and Austria from 1881 onwards. A double digit does indicate a very early phone registration. So, we are kind of safe somewhere in the 1880ies.

Is it the stamp of the hatter?

It says "Getreidehandlung" = company that sells crops and cerials. Should be an indication of the owner´s profession.

German or Austrian?

The name is indistinct or read, as well as the town. Could be Joszef Kü?nle.

If it is Joszef as opposed to Josef, it could indicate impreial Austrian provenance.

Would be easy if the stamp were more legible. [huh]

Nothing I could find on the hatter, so far.

 

[mayserwegener]

Dieter,

Thanks for the great info!

There is also xxxrt Koenig left of the portrait head.

I am going to try to take some better pictures.

-Steve

 

[Dreispitz]

Steve,

it looks pretty much like King Albert of Saxony - reign 1873 - 1902. If we are dealing with Albert we can narrow down the hat to the period between 1881 and 1902 latest.



And we are in the Kingdom of Saxony! Now, who were the main Saxonian hatters of the 19c ? lol

 

[mayserwegener]

Steve,

it looks pretty much like King Albert of Saxony - reign 1873 - 1902. If we are dealing with Albert we can narrow down the hat to the period between 1881 and 1902 latest.



And we are in the Kingdom of Saxony! Now, who were the main Saxonian hatters of the 19c ? lol

Dieter, Wow great detective work! I am still working on getting better pictures of the stamps.

 

[HosManHatter]

Nice roundtops you guys!

That one hat looks very ecclesiastical indeed.I`m into heraldry and that style hat is verysimilar to the style of hat used in religious/papal Armorial Achievements.


Also...what is the difference between a "derby" and a "bowler"?What are the vitals(i.e. crown height,brim width)of the archtypical derby/bowler hat?

Thanks!
HMH

 

[Dreispitz]

Also...what is the difference between a "derby" and a "bowler"?
HMH

"Derby" : "Bowler" equals "garbage" : "rubbish" lol

 

[Cordite Blues]

ouch

"Derby" : "Bowler" equals "garbage" : "rubbish" lol

easy, big fella.

CB

 

[Dreispitz]

easy, big fella.

CB

O.K. ist´s more like the difference between a crocodile ..... the greener, the swimms


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[Brad Bowers]

HosManHatter,

Dreispitz is taking us back to the Trilby/Fedora discussion.lol

The only real difference between a Derby and a Bowler is on which side of the Atlantic you. In Britain, its country of origin, it's called a Bowler. In America, it's called a Derby. Stylistic differences notwithstanding, it's the same hat. Over the 170/160 years of its existence, crown heights changed, brim widths vary, curls vary, but there's no real difference between the two. At least, not enough to draw a distinction.

I'm a little more specific in my references. I respect the hat and call it based on its country of manufacture. So, when Dreispitz wears his Cavanagh Derby, I still refer to it as a Derby. If someone here wears a Lock & Co. Bowler, I still call it a Bowler, even though I'm located in America.

In France, its called a melon or melone, I can't remember the spelling.

So, Dreispitz, I've been wondering this: What is it called in Germany?

Brad

 

[HosManHatter]

Thanks,Brad.That answers all my questions.I`ve been looking at bowlers/derbys more and more....getting up nerve to maybe try and wear one.Since I`m getting the reputation of a "hat fanatic" at work I can just see people rolling their eyes as I stroll in sporting a derby. lol

Hey,good enough for Stanley Kubrick in "A Clockwork Orange",good enough for me!

Thanks again,btw,for the feathers,BB.Very nice of you.

HMH

 

[Brad Bowers]

Go for a Derby, HMH. Yes, it takes a little more nerve to wear than a fedora, but it's worth it. You'll get more compliments than derogatory comments.

And you're welcome, hope they come in handy.

Brad

 

[Dreispitz]

Go for a Derby, HMH. Yes, it takes a little more nerve to wear than a fedora, but it's worth it. You'll get more compliments that derogatory comments.

And you're welcome, hope they come in handy.

Brad

Indeed, a Derby is a real statement. There is only few people among billions, today wearing vintage Derbys because they like the style and history. You are usually the only one in the area and it might take some guts the first times.

I wear my Derbys/Bowlers on a regular basis at formal and casual occasions. 98% of the feedbacks are positive ... some people even do not recognise me without it! lol

Brad, to answer you previous question: in German we call this type of hat Melone (English: melon) and sometimes Bowler. In Italian it is Bombetta.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Indeed, a Derby is a real statement. There is only few people among billions, today wearing vintage Derbys because they like the style and history. You are usually the only one in the area and it might take some guts the first times.

I wear my Derbys/Bowlers on a regular basis at formal and casual occasions. 98% of the feedbacks are positive ... some people even do not recognise me without it! lol

Brad, to answer you previous question: in German we call this type of hat Melone (English: melon) and sometimes Bowler. In Italian it is Bombetta.

Thanks, Dreispitz, I didn't know the Italian term. So, it's called the same thing in Germany and France, or am I confused about the French name?

Brad

 

[Dreispitz]

Thanks, Dreispitz, I didn't know the Italian term. So, it's called the same thing in Germany and France, or am I confused about the French name?

Brad

French: chapeau mélon

German: Melone

 

[Lokar]

In Sweden, bowlers are called "plommonstop". "Plommon" means plum, "stop" refers to a round jug that was used to measure fruit volume and resembled the crown of a bowler.

 

[Brad Bowers]

French: chapeau mélon

German: Melone

Danke!

Brad

 

[Dreispitz]

Danke!

Brad

Welcome!

Here it is in Chinese: 圓頂小檐邊黑色禮帽, 長禮帽 lol lol lol

 

[Brad Bowers]

The list so far:

United Kingdom: Bowler
United States: Derby
Germany: Melone
France: Chapeau mélon
Sweden: Plommonstop
China: 圓頂小檐邊黑色禮帽, 長禮帽

Who else can contribute?

Brad