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The Bowler or Derby Hat

Erikhel

New in Town
Messages
9
Morning all. Been following this eminent forum for some time and very slowly starting to build up a modest collection of my own. This one I’m quite fond of. Size 59, made by Christys for legendary (and now long gone) Swedish clothing company MEA. Excellent condition, no idea how old. Now I really, really would like to get my hands on a Dunn Perfectus. Got one on Ebay, just holding it was sensational - but unfortunately it was way too small.

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Messages
18,401
Location
Nederland
Morning all. Been following this eminent forum for some time and very slowly starting to build up a modest collection of my own. This one I’m quite fond of. Size 59, made by Christys for legendary (and now long gone) Swedish clothing company MEA. Excellent condition, no idea how old. Now I really, really would like to get my hands on a Dunn Perfectus. Got one on Ebay, just holding it was sensational - but unfortunately it was way too small.

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Welcome to the lounge, Erik. A fine example of English hatmaking from its heyday by the looks of it. Christys' these days does not come anywhere near that quality. I'm looking forward to your other hats already.
 
Messages
12,384
Location
Albany Oregon
I have been wanting a gray stiff felt for a while now, Stefan came through for me. This Dunn & Co. appears to be of recent manufacture, but it is quite nice. The lines are typically British, tight brim curl and a square, straight crown. Even though it is marked as a 58, it is very small. Doing some major stretching, but I think it will come around. This will be one great Bowler for a gray/navy suit this winter.

21Sep18 Dunn gray Bowler profile 450x.jpg
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Erikhel

New in Town
Messages
9
Morning! A Stetson made in and bought from Canada. The plastic brylcreem protector and logo dates it to mid/late fifties, right? Very good condition but with an unfortunate dent on the ”forehead”. I prefer lower crowns myself, but maybe these higher ones just takes some time getting used to. Would it be correct to say that British bowlers generally have lower crowns than their American derby cousins?
 

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Messages
12,384
Location
Albany Oregon
Morning! A Stetson made in and bought from Canada. The plastic brylcreem protector and logo dates it to mid/late fifties, right? Very good condition but with an unfortunate dent on the ”forehead”. I prefer lower crowns myself, but maybe these higher ones just takes some time getting used to. Would it be correct to say that British bowlers generally have lower crowns than their American derby cousins?
The lines of a bowler (English) or a derby (American) vary by the styles of the day more than geographic location. It is possible to find a match on either side of the pond. That being said, if you read through this rather long thread you will see some similarities, usually in crown height/shape and the tightness of the brim curl. Over the 150+ years of this style just about any variation you can imagine has been in vogue. Welcome to the lounge.
 
Messages
18,401
Location
Nederland
Morning! A Stetson made in and bought from Canada. The plastic brylcreem protector and logo dates it to mid/late fifties, right? Very good condition but with an unfortunate dent on the ”forehead”. I prefer lower crowns myself, but maybe these higher ones just takes some time getting used to. Would it be correct to say that British bowlers generally have lower crowns than their American derby cousins?
Nice find, Erik. Good looking hat. From the pictures however I doubt that this is actually a bowler. The slight indentation that can be seen on the second picture, the ribbon and bow and the liner make me think this is an open crown homburg hat. I think you could easily put a center dent in that felt. A good thing in my book: I love homburgs.
+1 on what Mike said.
 

Erikhel

New in Town
Messages
9
Steur – this is exactly why you should always hang out with the very best. What a game changer! All it took was the mildest of karate chops on the crown – and voilá, a homburg! You were so right! When I saw it it was obvious, but I never would have guessed. Thanks a lot!

And also to you, Redfokker. Actually, I have read through the whole thread, starting in July. Seeing all the beautiful pics and reading the expert comments like yours is actually one of the main reasons my distanced interest in bowlers have spun a bit out of control. Waiting for a 60's Dunn from somewhere in England as we speak. My only grief is they don't suit me that well, to be honest, but I suppose it's first and foremost a question of attitude and attitudes can always be worked on :)
 
Messages
18,401
Location
Nederland
Steur – this is exactly why you should always hang out with the very best. What a game changer! All it took was the mildest of karate chops on the crown – and voilá, a homburg! You were so right! When I saw it it was obvious, but I never would have guessed. Thanks a lot!

And also to you, Redfokker. Actually, I have read through the whole thread, starting in July. Seeing all the beautiful pics and reading the expert comments like yours is actually one of the main reasons my distanced interest in bowlers have spun a bit out of control. Waiting for a 60's Dunn from somewhere in England as we speak. My only grief is they don't suit me that well, to be honest, but I suppose it's first and foremost a question of attitude and attitudes can always be worked on :)
Well, there you go, Erik. It happens more often than you think and I have landed a few hats for a low price that way. Demand for bowlers is not high and they usually sell for low prices. If you can spot if a hat is in fact not a bowler then you might get lucky. Bowlers do deserve more praise however, because the craftsmanship that goes into them is incredible.
 

Steve1857

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,829
Location
Denmark
Well, there you go, Erik. It happens more often than you think and I have landed a few hats for a low price that way. Demand for bowlers is not high and they usually sell for low prices. If you can spot if a hat is in fact not a bowler then you might get lucky. Bowlers do deserve more praise however, because the craftsmanship that goes into them is incredible.
+ 1 on that Stefan. Bowlers have sadly gone out of "fashion". Let us bowler lovers try and bring it back.

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Steve1857

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,829
Location
Denmark
I posted this one, which I picked up at the local, weekly flea market here in Elsinore, Denmark, a month or so ago in the New Hats forum, but forgot to post it here. I'm now making amends for my oversight.

A magnificent example of Moores & Sons craftmanship. Created at their Denton factory, Manchester, made "expressly" for Magasin du Nord (the Harrods of Copenhagen and even more exclusive then than now) probably in the 1920s or 1930s. It's a very solid, heavy bowler with a hat liner that is a joy to behold.

I wondered what the term "Vacuum Fitting" meant, but soon found out once I put the bowler on. The wide and thick leather sweat band seems to expand thus fitting the hat tightly to the head. Not in an uncomfortable way though. This leads me to surmise that the P.C. who ordered it needed this particular feature because he didn't want his bowler to easily fall off. Copenhagen and its environs are not particularly windy, so this suggests to me that it was used while out horse riding.

Whatever its history, and oh if only hats could talk, I am so pleased it is now in my collection and looking forward to wearing it outdoors sometime soon.
 

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Messages
18,401
Location
Nederland
I posted this one, which I picked up at the local, weekly flea market here in Elsinore, Denmark, a month or so ago in the New Hats forum, but forgot to post it here. I'm now making amends for my oversight.

A magnificent example of Moores & Sons craftmanship. Created at their Denton factory, Manchester, made "expressly" for Magasin du Nord (the Harrods of Copenhagen and even more exclusive then than now) probably in the 1920s or 1930s. It's a very solid, heavy bowler with a hat liner that is a joy to behold.

I wondered what the term "Vacuum Fitting" meant, but soon found out once I put the bowler on. The wide and thick leather sweat band seems to expand thus fitting the hat tightly to the head. Not in an uncomfortable way though. This leads me to surmise that the P.C. who ordered it needed this particular feature because he didn't want his bowler to easily fall off. Copenhagen and its environs are not particularly windy, so this suggests to me that it was used while out horse riding.

Whatever its history, and oh if only hats could talk, I am so pleased it is now in my collection and looking forward to wearing it outdoors sometime soon.
I seem to have missed this one before. It's a great hat, Steve, and from an excellent English maker too. Moores did make great hats.
 
Messages
18,401
Location
Nederland
Probably my favourite hat for the time being. Dunn & Co, pristine condition, any estimate of age would be most welcome. Previous owner: A Mr. Foskett of Bradford, Yorkshire. Proper gentleman, I'm sure.


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Looks pristine, Erik. Nice find. Not a very early one, because it doesn't have the G.A. in front of the Dunn name. My guess would be early to mid sixties for this one. Dunn kept using quite elaborate liners even in their later hats.
 
Messages
12,384
Location
Albany Oregon
Looks pristine, Erik. Nice find. Not a very early one, because it doesn't have the G.A. in front of the Dunn name. My guess would be early to mid sixties for this one. Dunn kept using quite elaborate liners even in their later hats.
It would be an interesting study to look at the evolution of Dunn & Co. logos. My new gray bowler has a different look than this one does.
 
Messages
18,401
Location
Nederland
It would be an interesting study to look at the evolution of Dunn & Co. logos. My new gray bowler has a different look than this one does.
Dunn&Co seem to have had a wide variety of liners. The one in your bowler is the same as my Dunn homburg which dates from the seventies, except for the red side.
 

Steve1857

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,829
Location
Denmark
Nice band and colour, gives it that South American bowler hat look. It seems though that this hat has had a dent and pinches, so perhaps not so bowler hat.
I made the hat band for this. It says the maker is "Internationally Famed". Nice hat, but never heard of them. View attachment 139936 View attachment 139937

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