The Bowler or Derby Hat

[mayserwegener]

I just purchased another Stetson derby. Hopefully it fits. I won't have it for some time due to shipping. What I liked about it is the embroidered liner, I do not see often.

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I believe that based on the size tags, this hat is from the early 1930s. However when you look at the exposition medal liner, it would normally not be from the 1930s. Would this hat be very late 1920s, or very early 1930s?

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Here are some other dating details. It is my understanding that leather sweatbands that were not sewn together (taped) at the ends was pre 30s? But the bow is not frayed?

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I assume you are asking specifically for Stetson? If so you might want to also post in these threads for wider exposure.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/pre-1940s-stetson-dress-hats.42859/

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/stetson-exposition-medals.49267/

 

[mayserwegener]

I have been wearing the Stetson derby Redfokker sold to me pretty much everyday since receiving it. There are many aspects of it that I enjoy. The slightly larger 3/8 size is comfortable, and the wide brim looks wonderful compared to the tighter brim Knox I have. Mostly at the moment I am purchasing for learning purposes. For example, I have decided I prefer summer unlined hats, they feel more casual and easier to wear. The lined Stetson I just purchased is an exception, because the embroidered liner just strikes me as different enough to want it.

I am hunting for a Borsalino bombetta, one that is unlined and in my size. Which is a 7 1/4 or 7 3/8 apparently. I don't have enough experience to know which is a better fit in a stiff felt hat etc. If anyone can help me find one of these Borsalino hats in my size, I would be very happy!

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This made me remember something interesting that I found a while ago with this Stiff Felt. Can anyone guess what it might be?

 

[Redfokker]

This made me remember something interesting that I found a while ago with this Stiff Felt. Can anyone guess what it might be?

Other than it is on your head and not mine, I can't see anything wrong with it I find the front to back lines of the brim quite interesting.

 

[mayserwegener]

Mike, The clue is in the post I quoted.

 

[steur]

This made me remember something interesting that I found a while ago with this Stiff Felt. Can anyone guess what it might be?

Well, it's not the bow; that is frayed like they usually are. What I miss is the name of the retailer on the liner.

 

[Kuro]

Wow, what a brim curl! The only similarity I see from my post and your hat is the emblem looks sort of like remotely similar from 10 feet away.

 

[mayserwegener]

The clue is what is discussed by Kuro in the quoted post.

 

[mayserwegener]

Ok I will end it because it's too difficult.

The liner is removable and there is also a crown patch.

 

[Kuro]

Ok I will end it because it's too difficult.

The liner is removable and there is also a crown patch.

Removable as in it is meant to be removable in some fashion, to make the hat seasonal, or more versatile?

I had given thought that some of the unlined derby/bowlers were possibly missing their liners? Or would they not have a crown patch if they had a liner?

As in, it is not common to have both a liner AND a crown patch?

 

[mayserwegener]

Removable as in it is meant to be removable in some fashion, to make the hat seasonal, or more versatile?

I had given thought that some of the unlined derby/bowlers were possibly missing their liners? Or would they not have a crown patch if they had a liner?

As in, it is not common to have both a liner AND a crown patch?

I assume in this case because the liner was not attached.

It's possible but this is the only one I have verified.

This is the only one I have encountered. I haven't seen many with the liner removed. Most liners are attached at the crown and some are glued or stitched at the liner break (some are taped).

I guess it's also possible you could purchase liners.

 

[Kuro]

So, I know I have to post pictures of the Stetson derby I recently purchased and the one that Redfokker so kindly and graciously sold to me. I will, I just am slow.

But this morning while I was deciding which of the two I was wearing out the door, as they both have a different look, I noticed something unexpected. Mind you, I have only purchased four vintage derby hats to date, and one was a catch and release.

On the brim for both of my Stetson hats there is a wire sewn into the ribbon that is sewn on the outer edge of the brim. In the front and rear, it is sewn under the ribbon, but on the sides of the curl, the wire runs outside of the ribbon, inside the curl, out of sight. It is obviously to support the brim, keep it out, if that makes sense.

Difficult to take a photo of, as it is underneath the D'Orsay curl. And it is unexpected for me to find, as I have not seen any mention of such a wire used for the shaping of the brim in my reading about these hats. I have learned all about reed vs wire in the sweatband, so many details about size tags and leather texture and etc, but this is new to me.

Perhaps it can be used for dating a hat as well as other items? Does anyone know more about this process?

I checked my Knox this eve, and it is an earlier derby than my two Stetson derby hats, and I am 90% certain it too has a wire around the brim except it is sewn inside the ribbon and basically follows the edge of the D'Orsay curl. Unlike my two Stetson hats where the wire follows the underside of the curl as shown in the photo below.

I apologize for the poor picture, as I said it is difficult to photograph.

 

[mayserwegener]

I have seen them before in photos where the binding was removed or damaged. I haven't looked close at any of mine but if I can remember I will take look.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

This Cavanagh 7 5/8 long oval arrived a couple weeks ago. It’s in pristine condition. Others here have dated this for me to the mid 1950s.

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[hatsRme]

This Cavanagh 7 5/8 long oval arrived a couple weeks ago. It’s in pristine condition. Others here have dated this for me to the mid 1950s.

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What find, Brent. Congrats!! It fits you perfectly.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

What find, Brent. Congrats!! It fits you perfectly.

Thanks, Charlie. I don’t think it will see much head time, but I felt that I just needed a derby.


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[Redfokker]

This Cavanagh 7 5/8 long oval arrived a couple weeks ago. It’s in pristine condition. Others here have dated this for me to the mid 1950s.

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Very nice Cav Brent. I think you are right on with that dating, somewhere between 1956-1960. The resurgence of the Derby style came during that period too. They went back into and out of style in a short period then.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Very nice Cav Brent. I think you are right on with that dating, somewhere between 1956-1960. The resurgence of the Derby style came during that period too. They went back into and out of style in a short period then.

Thanks, Mike. Alan referred to it as a revivalist era hat. The size and the long oval made it a must buy.


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[alanfgag]

Long live the short lived derby revival!

 

[steur]

This Cavanagh 7 5/8 long oval arrived a couple weeks ago. It’s in pristine condition. Others here have dated this for me to the mid 1950s.

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Thanks, Charlie. I don’t think it will see much head time, but I felt that I just needed a derby.


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Great find, Brent. I can relate where it comes to wearing them. I found that I actually own more than ten bowlers and never wear any of them. They are such great hats though.

 

[mayserwegener]

Brent, Looks great! I wear my Stiff Felts occasionally but need to wear them more often (at least the ones that are a good fit). I can't recall any strange looks when I do wear one (at least where I live).