The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[DVNO]

Wow, thank you so much for the detailed answers. So I guess it wasn’t a bad investment for 60 Euros.

 

[steur]

Just arrived from Greece, an Italian (that is sold in Italy) Borsalino. The interesting part is that it is marten fur felt. I've never had one before and, frankly, didn't know they existed till about two weeks ago. The felt has a fabulous hand. Thought it might be of interest.

It's a great find, Adrian. They have been posted here before. I have a couple and Max has one as well. We've ony seen them coming from Peluso of Napoli.

 

[steur]

Hey guys,

I bought this hat for 60 Euros. Does anyone have any infos about it? Thanks!

For 60 euros that was a great investement, certainly at that size! Very nice hat. As the others have already pointed out it was made between 1954 and 1960 (roughly).

 

[Mean Eyed Matt]

Thank you, Stefan, for your assessment!

 

[Pkyoakum]

The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD RECAP

I haven't been posting for the last few day, but that doesn't mean I haven't been busy. I've been re-reading all of the posts on this thread and made a recap for myself of all things borsalino (well, not all, but a lot).
Let's start with the colours. These are the ones we've seen and of which the pictures have been preserved. I've called the lighter colours "naturals", but these are somewhat in line I guess with the silverbelly colours of the American hats. Black (nero) doesn't get its own group. I did notice there are very few blues, which means they were either difficult to make or there was not much demand for them.
Most of the metals belong in the group "greys" as well (but not all of them).

Colours

View attachment 161749

Then there are the colours we've not seen as felts, but could still be out there. How do we know this? When Steve (@mayserwegener) and Daniele (@Daniele Tanto ) visited the Borsalino factory, Steve took this shot:
View attachment 161751
While it is true that these are the colours of the windcords that are in the boxes and not necessarily of felts, it is still a tantalizing picture. We've seen some of these colours as ribbon colours, but who knows? All in all a mindboggling amount of colours.
Next to that is the list of Misto felts. Quite a number of those too.

Another little tidbit is that on the left hand side of the picture a list can be seen on the rack with country codes on them. I wonder if these could be traced back to numbers on the labels.

Then there are the model names. I've limited that list to the model names on the labels inside the hats. The model names that come from sweatbands or retailers are not on this list. We hold the theory on the lounge that these are completely made up names, because neither google translate nor Italian speakers can make heads or tails of them. I'm beginning to think this may not be the case. Looking at all of them in a row there are a certain number of affixes that appear regularly, like "sca", "sti", "spo", "san" and "la". I'm thinking these are so frequent that they don't seem to be random at all, but follow certain grammatical rules. That would point to a language and I'm beginning to think that these names could be originating from the Piemontese dialect or language (the jury is still out on wether it's either one or the other) and maybe even specifically the dialect of Alessandria. Maybe these are words that are pronounced in a certain way phonetically in that dialect and then were written down, which would explain why certain names occur in different forms, which resemble each other closely. I can relate to this somewhat, because I'm a dialect speaker myself and there is not set of rules or given spelling for the way the pronounciation is supposed to be written down. If you're trying to write down a dialect you just take a stab at it. Which is what these name look like to me. Now all we need is someone from Alessandria who speaks the local dialect to test this theory.
The model names of lobbia/homburgs and bowlers/melones are separate.
And finally there are the quality designations found on the liners.

More colours, misto felts, models and designations

View attachment 161750

The list doesn't include the felts, because there's some uncertainty about these refer to either the felt itself or to the finish of the hat. But for completists: I've found these felts:
nutria
castoro
martoro
aquila
lontra
visone.

Finishes are named specifically as well on a good number of hats. These names I've found so far:
serikon
diamante
angora
pesca
imperiale
silchi
mimosa
krystal
peluche
castoro.

There's a separate thread on the borsalino label lore, specifically the celled format (recommended). Generally the concensus for now seems to be for the labels:
* celled format: earliest form occuring in the earliest dated hats from the twenties (two different types)
* cerrated format with the borsalino name sideways: appears in the thirties (my theory would be after the GB Borsalino fu Lazzaro was taken over in 1936) up until the early fifties (there are known combinations with OPS tags)
* cerrated format without the borsalino name: appears in the early fifties (again: there are examples in combination with OPS tags) up until the late sixties
* rounded edge label: appears in the late sixties up until 1980. Usually has the colour name on it. These labels for several years hold the fabrication year as the first two numbers of the upper right label number.
* elongated rounded edge label: just holds codenumbers and size in lower right corner. Still in use today.

That's all you need to know for now. Test tomorrow

in looking at vintage Borsalinos, is the Augusta and/or Trionfo lesser quality than the Qualita Superiore? Thanks

 

[steur]

in looking at vintage Borsalinos, is the Augusta and/or Trionfo lesser quality than the Qualita Superiore? Thanks

We don't see the Trionfo line hats that often, so they are a bit more rare, and the Augusta line are mostly the hats with special finishes like longhairs and velour hats. But neither are any better or worse quality than the Superiore or Extra Superiore hats.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Here we are with the new year and a recent discovery of 2022.

It has come out a new source of Borsalino here half a kilometer from my office, bequest of an old gentleman

Borsalino Qualità Extra Extra Superiore size 6 or 59 cm. and 7 3/8 in the USA.

The color and type of felt is called "M. Volga" and the type of hat band is written in pen (c. Joe 24), as you can see.

The hat is unlined and light enough with a very soft and malleable felt, made of furs+wool finished with heather colors and a medium furs

The gentleman used a lot the Borsalinos which are the core of his collection, all shaped like this one

The dimensions are: the brims, over-sewn, are 5.5 cm, the crown at its lowest point is 11 cm. and the trimming ribbon is 3 cm.

I bought the ones I liked the most, taking into account that all of them have had continuous use

 

[Daniele Tanto]

The second and last Borsalino of the January 2022 series, I left the others to the heirs, not because they are not very interesting, but because I have too many.

Borsalino Qualità Extra Extra Superiore size 5 1/2 or 58 cm. and 7 1/4 in the USA.

The color and type of felt are called "Opale" and the hatband is "Nera" the type of hat is Dol_osan, I can't read the fourth syllable.

The hat is lined and light enough to be super malleable.

The shape is the original one after the hat has been "restored" from too many folds given by an inaccurate storage

The dimensions are: the brims, over-sewn are 6 cm, the crown at its lowest point is 10 cm. and the ribbon is 4cm. pleated

This felt is also special, finished with a short fur, continuous color and beautiful touch and malleability.
The hats were all bought in the same shop in Verona that I vaguely remember

 

[Pellie]

Great looking hat @Daniele Tanto

 

[Blare]

Here we are with the new year and a recent discovery of 2022.
View attachment 395076
It has come out a new source of Borsalino here half a kilometer from my office, bequest of an old gentleman
View attachment 395077 Borsalino Qualità Extra Extra Superiore size 6 or 59 cm. and 7 3/8 in the USA.
View attachment 395079
The color and type of felt is called "M. Volga" and the type of hat band is written in pen (c. Joe 24), as you can see.
View attachment 395080
The hat is unlined and light enough with a very soft and malleable felt, made of furs+wool finished with heather colors and a medium furs
View attachment 395082
The gentleman used a lot the Borsalinos which are the core of his collection, all shaped like this one
View attachment 395084 The dimensions are: the brims, over-sewn, are 5.5 cm, the crown at its lowest point is 11 cm. and the trimming ribbon is 3 cm.
View attachment 395085
I bought the ones I liked the most, taking into account that all of them have had continuous use

A real beauty Daniele

 

[steur]

Here we are with the new year and a recent discovery of 2022.
View attachment 395076
It has come out a new source of Borsalino here half a kilometer from my office, bequest of an old gentleman
View attachment 395077 Borsalino Qualità Extra Extra Superiore size 6 or 59 cm. and 7 3/8 in the USA.
View attachment 395079
The color and type of felt is called "M. Volga" and the type of hat band is written in pen (c. Joe 24), as you can see.
View attachment 395080
The hat is unlined and light enough with a very soft and malleable felt, made of furs+wool finished with heather colors and a medium furs
View attachment 395082
The gentleman used a lot the Borsalinos which are the core of his collection, all shaped like this one
View attachment 395084 The dimensions are: the brims, over-sewn, are 5.5 cm, the crown at its lowest point is 11 cm. and the trimming ribbon is 3 cm.
View attachment 395085
I bought the ones I liked the most, taking into account that all of them have had continuous use

That is a beautiful longhair heather felt, Daniele. Really like the look of it. I might be coming down with a fever, because I even like this ribbon on this one.

 

[Daniele Tanto]

That is a beautiful longhair heather felt, Daniele. Really like the look of it. I might be coming down with a fever, because I even like this ribbon on this one.

Stefan I agree with you and it is one of my favourite "new" chapter in Borsalino models.

 

[steur]

The second and last Borsalino of the January 2022 series, I left the others to the heirs, not because they are not very interesting, but because I have too many.

Borsalino Qualità Extra Extra Superiore size 5 1/2 or 58 cm. and 7 1/4 in the USA.

The color and type of felt are called "Opale" and the hatband is "Nera" the type of hat is Dol_osan, I can't read the fourth syllable.

The hat is lined and light enough to be super malleable.

The shape is the original one after the hat has been "restored" from too many folds given by an inaccurate storage

The dimensions are: the brims, over-sewn are 6 cm, the crown at its lowest point is 10 cm. and the ribbon is 4cm. pleated

This felt is also special, finished with a short fur, continuous color and beautiful touch and malleability.
The hats were all bought in the same shop in Verona that I vaguely remember

Another beautiful longhair, Daniele. Classic look, but with that little extra because of the longhair finish and shark gill bow. I tried to enhance the picture somewhat to see what the name would be.

Seems to say "Dolnosan 38", but I have some doubts. Could be a typing error was made they tried to correct. We know of a model called "Dolfosan", so maybe that is what was intended. Perhaps not the best typist they had: notice that it seems to say "Opali" for the colour instead of the usual "Opale".

 

[Pkyoakum]

Anyone know anything about a Centurion Borsalino? I have never heard of it. Here are the photos.

 

[steur]

Anyone know anything about a Centurion Borsalino? I have never heard of it. Here are the photos. View attachment 396527 View attachment 396528

I've seen these pop up now and again. They are somewhat later hats by Borsalino: about mid-seventies to early eighties. Not in any way lesser quality than other designations. So, depending on the price, worth going for.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thanks, Steur. It was $78 plus around $35 shipping from UK, and of course Uncle Sam adds his taxes (why tax from UK is beyond me). I will know more once it arrives. Blessings.

It’s been years since I’ve had to pay tax on merchandise bought overseas. Is US Customs charging you or is the seller a retailer and charging you VAT when they aren’t supposed to?

 

[Pkyoakum]

Borsalino Extra Superiore in Bronzo. The ribbon has a slight color gradient in Aligi.
Nice hand, very maluable, with stitched brim.
According to Stefan's tag-dating list, it is somewhere in the 1960s - 80s.
The eBay photo was so bad, that I got it for 1 Euro!

View attachment 170983 View attachment 170984 View attachment 170992 my beautiful daughter View attachment 170986 View attachment 170991 View attachment 170987 View attachment 170988 View attachment 170989 View attachment 170985 View attachment 170979 original eBay photo

What did you do to restore the hat? It looks good. You did a great job.

 

[Pkyoakum]

I keep seeing you guys with vintage Borsalinos with white tags with Borsalino written across the tag indicating from the years 1936-1953 and I kept wondering where you find them. Tonight one popped up on auction just as I was looking, so I bought it. Here are some photos.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

View attachment 396975 View attachment 396976 View attachment 396977 View attachment 396978 View attachment 396979 I keep seeing you guys with vintage Borsalinos with white tags with Borsalino written across the tag indicating from the years 1936-1953 and I kept wondering where you find them. Tonight one popped up on auction just as I was looking, so I bought it. Here are some photos. View attachment 396975 View attachment 396976 View attachment 396977 View attachment 396978 View attachment 396979

Way to go. That’s a great hat and Doc @NewJack (the seller) is a great guy so you can know it’s a great hat.

 

[Mighty44]

I saw that on EBay—spectacular hat, congrats!

View attachment 396975 View attachment 396976 View attachment 396977 View attachment 396978 View attachment 396979 I keep seeing you guys with vintage Borsalinos with white tags with Borsalino written across the tag indicating from the years 1936-1953 and I kept wondering where you find them. Tonight one popped up on auction just as I was looking, so I bought it. Here are some photos. View attachment 396975 View attachment 396976 View attachment 396977 View attachment 396978 View attachment 396979