The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

[ManofKent]

That's shaped up nicely Alan. If they were intended as gifts, they were a great present.

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks Richard and Manfred,

Interesting thoughts Steve. I hadn't considered the otter for felt content.

 

[mayserwegener]

Otter does seem exotic for hat felt. I don't recall its mention in any felt related documentation. I have seen Rabbit, Hare, Beaver, Nutria and Muskrat mentioned (along with exotic wool types). I know there are other older hats on the FL that mention (liner, sweat) Otter.

 

[mikespens]

Swell hat and revival Alan. Shows again the amazing quality of the vintage borsy. It is indeed "Fantesca"

 

[splintercellsz]

That is one sweet lid, Alan!

 

[Daniele Tanto]

Alan your Borsalino is a rare beauty. The fur of Lontra is now forbidden in Italy from 1977, so for this the hat is a real rarity.
"Fantesca" ia a very old italian word that means an housemaid.
Often in the Borsalino internal label with color and size there is another word (the discussion was made here) that means nothing (invented word or two parts of words together and so on), but it is the annual series of the hat. In this case "Fantesca" that is a real word in disuse was the serie of this kind of hats

 

[hatsRme]

What a fine find, my friend! My theory as to the unworn state of these roll ups is that they were intended as a travel, or backup hat, and therefor not used much, or at all.

 

[mayserwegener]

I searched some German sources and Otter (Fischotter) is mentioned as a fur that could be used for hat felts. All the mentions are from the 19th Century. Otter was more expensive than Beaver so probably used in very small contents. I will post some more information in the German - Austrian thread.

 

[TheDane]

I always thought, Borsalino wrote the model-name at that place. Or could the "Pesca" really be made from heering- or cod-fur?

Maybe the fact, that the name is that of a rodent with feltable fur, is leading us in a wrong direction here(?)

 

[John Galt]

Doesn't seem particularly odd that one would use otter fur, however. The "Hudson Seal" was used, and if muskrat was felted otter certainly could be. I have felt otter fur and it is exceedingly fine and soft - much like beaver fur - without the long course hairs that are found in mink.

Whether it was, in fact, used, I cannot say.

 

[TheDane]

Doesn't seem particularly odd that one would use otter fur, however. The "Hudson Seal" was used, and if muskrat was felted otter certainly could be. I have felt otter fur and it is exceedingly fine and soft - much like beaver fur - without the long course hairs that are found in mink.

Whether it was, in fact, used, I cannot say.

I agree, but I'm just not sure, that the quoted word on the front of the sweatband points in that direction. Do we know of other examples, where a word in that place designates the fur content of a Borsalino?

 

[carouselvic]

These were names of finishes that they produced. It does not mean contents.

Kittens and antelope were not used in the felting process that I am aware of.

 

[mayserwegener]

I am not sure that applies across the board. So Castoro marked hats don't have Beaver content?

Is this is a Beaver finish?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD&p=1480296&viewfull=1#post1480296

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD&p=1389851&viewfull=1#post1389851

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD&p=1389851&viewfull=1#post1389851

Is this a Nutria finish?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD&p=1483569&viewfull=1#post1483569


Also Otter was used in hat felting. There is definitely historical mention of it. Not saying that is the case with Alan's Borsalino or my TONAK.

 

[mayserwegener]

I found Robert's post regarding the boxes.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD&p=1404513&viewfull=1#post1404513

 

[carouselvic]

I am not sure that applies across the board. So Castoro marked hats don't have Beaver content?

Is this is a Beaver finish?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD&p=1480296&viewfull=1#post1480296

Is this a Nutria finish?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD&p=1483569&viewfull=1#post1483569

Also Otter was used in hat felting. There is definitely historical mention of it. Not saying that is the case with Alan's Borsalino or my TONAK.

Now did I say any of this crap?

 

[mayserwegener]

You said they designated finishes. My point -> Maybe some do and maybe some don't. Sorry the last statement was not addressed to your post.

 

[TheDane]

I am not sure that applies across the board. So Castoro marked hats don't have Beaver content?

Is this is a Beaver finish?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD&p=1480296&viewfull=1#post1480296

I'm not sure. The designation, we are talking about, is an animal-name in quotes at the forehead part of the sweatband. That may and may not speak about the content - it may and may not speak about the finish - I'm not sure. It puzzles me, that the same place on the sweatband has been used for model-names - also in quotes.

Is this a Nutria finish?

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD&p=1483569&viewfull=1#post1483569

That is a very different designation. I would guess, it speaks about the content.

Also Otter was used in hat felting. There is definitely historical mention of it. Not saying that is the case with Alan's Borsalino or my TONAK.

I don't think anyone disagree on that.

 

[mayserwegener]

I'm not sure. The designation, we are talking about, is an animal-name in quotes at the forehead part of the sweatband. That may and may not speak about the content - it may and may not speak about the finish - I'm not sure. It puzzles me, that the same place on the sweatband has been used for model-names - also in quotes.

I am not saying they all designate fur content. The post I addressed said they were finishes. In the case of Castoro (displayed the same as Lontra on the front of the sweat) it definitely designates Beaver felt content. Check this link.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD&p=1389851&viewfull=1#post1389851

 

[TheDane]

I am not saying they all designate fur content. The post I addressed said they were finishes. In the case of Castoro (displayed the same as Lontra on the front of the sweat) it definitely designates Beaver felt content. Check this link.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?13133-The-BORSALINO-BROTHERHOOD&p=1389851&viewfull=1#post1389851

I don't see this as "definitely". Yes, the sweatband says "Castoro" - and yes, the hat is made from beaver felt. But we see a lot of other words in quotes - in the exact same spot - and it has nothing to do with the fur content. I'm just not sure, the word "Castoro" in that place designates the content - even though it actually is beaver. But I don't know

 

[mayserwegener]

It states in the catalog I posted (credit RLK). "Castoro" XX (Beaver Felt)

Not saying "Lontra" designates fur content but I wouldn't say it's a finish (Otter finish?) either!