Terror attack in Oslo, Norway

[Hereward]

If he's deemed insane, he will be locked up in a mental institution for the rest of his life. If he doesn't, he will still be in prison for the rest of his life, so either way, he's not going back to society again.

The maximum penalty in Norway is 21 years, so he'll have plenty of living to do when he gets out.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I agree. My views are my own, I expect nobody else to have them who disagree with them. I was raised in a Catholic household, so eye for an eye is what I was taught.

Not to say prison wouldn't be enough. These people don't deserve freedom. It's terrible that someone would take someone's life like that. You're not just hurting that person, you're hurting all those who care for them. Just a sad thing to think of. Those people were all innocent.

There will always be those who will be either a menace to society or, once imprisoned, a burden to society because such dangerous persons could never be allowed to live free among society. I'd rather have neither, hence my support for the death penalty. It sickens me to think that such persons will be cared for the rest of their lives at taxpayer expense. I can't think of a more cynical cruelty to be inflicted upon the families of the victims. Because the tax dollars (or euros in the case of Norway) needed to keep these unrehabilitatable murderers incarcerated includes those paid by the survivors of the victims. So, to me, this has nothing to do with hate and everything to do with compassion for the families of the victims.

Though I'm not averse to implementing what I call an "Adopt a Killer" scheme where those who are strongly opposed to the death penalty can voluntarily contribute to the cost of incarcerating a murderer.

 

[avedwards]

The maximum penalty in Norway is 21 years, so he'll have plenty of living to do when he gets out.

Unless the Norwegian justice system decides to keep him indefinitely with reviews every five years, as they can theoretically do.

 

[Tomasso]

I was raised in a Catholic household, so eye for an eye is what I was taught.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...

 

[GamaH]

This was terrible. My friend was supposed to go to Utøya the next day. I keep telling him how lucky he is.

 

[sheeplady]

The maximum penalty in Norway is 21 years, so he'll have plenty of living to do when he gets out.

Is that true even in that case? Is it 21 years for any multitude of crimes (as in we don't imprison people for more than 21 years no matter what they did), or the maximum sentence for this type of crime- premeditated murder- 21 years?

In the US for example, there are minimum and maximum penalities. A judge can have a person serve multiple sentences back to back and also determines the length of the sentence. So for instance, if one is convicted of murdering two people, one could get a 20 year sentence for murder and a second 20-year sentence for murder to be served consecutively. This means a 40-year span of jail time.

 

[RichardH]

The maximum penalty is 30 years for crimes against humanity, which he is facing. But if a prisoner is deemed too dangerous to return to society, they can keep him locked up for another 5 or 10 years. That can go on for eternity, so nobody should really worry that this man is going to walk the streets as a free man again.


" Ikke skyt meg, nå har du skutt nok. Du har drept pappaen min. Jeg er for ung til å dø. La oss være."

Translation:

"Don't kill me, you've killed enough people already. You killed my father, and I'm too young to die. Leave us be"
Words of an 11 year old boy who faced the gunman at Utøya. His actions spared his life, and saved the life of another person.

He's not a boy anymore, he's a man, and a hero!

 

[Undertow]

The maximum penalty is 30 years for crimes against humanity...

Was this something that changed recently? Just curious.

I'm sure Norwegians (middle-aged generation) would recall the Varg Vikernes trial in which he was tried and convicted of murder, as well as a number of church arsons. I believe he was sentenced to 21years, and served 16. That was in the mid-90's.

 

[MikeBravo]

I agree. My views are my own, I expect nobody else to have them who disagree with them. I was raised in a Catholic household, so eye for an eye is what I was taught.

I was raised in a Catholic household, and I was taught forgiveness of others.


Please note,
I'm not saying to let him go, I am saying revenge is not the central tenet of Catholicism, forgiveness and treat others as you would be treated is.

 

[rue]

Something tells me this thread is getting a bit out of control........

 

[RichardH]

Was this something that changed recently? Just curious.

I'm sure Norwegians (middle-aged generation) would recall the Varg Vikernes trial in which he was tried and convicted of murder, as well as a number of church arsons. I believe he was sentenced to 21years, and served 16. That was in the mid-90's.

I think they changed it back in 08. I used to go trick or treat (we do it on new years eve) at Varg Vikernes's mom & stepfathers house when I was younger. They were really nice!

 

[RichardH]

Something tells me this thread is getting a bit out of control........

You think? You should see this other forum I'm posting on, so many personal attacks etc, disgusting you fedoraloungers seem pretty civilized to me!

 

[rue]

I get what you're saying and I know other Forums are different, but instead of it being about the sadness of so many killed, it's turning into a disagreement about beliefs and some political rhetoric (?). I don't think that kind of thing belongs here, but I leave it up to the bartenders...... carry on.....

 

[sheeplady]

The maximum penalty is 30 years for crimes against humanity, which he is facing. But if a prisoner is deemed too dangerous to return to society, they can keep him locked up for another 5 or 10 years. That can go on for eternity, so nobody should really worry that this man is going to walk the streets as a free man again.


" Ikke skyt meg, nå har du skutt nok. Du har drept pappaen min. Jeg er for ung til å dø. La oss være."

Translation:

"Don't kill me, you've killed enough people already. You killed my father, and I'm too young to die. Leave us be"
Words of an 11 year old boy who faced the gunman at Utøya. His actions spared his life, and saved the life of another person.

He's not a boy anymore, he's a man, and a hero!

Thank you for answering my question. That is a wonderful story, and that boy really is a hero.

I really am hoping the best for the survivors, especially the children. I can't imagine that seeing that amount of violence is an easy thing to overcome as a child. I am assuming that there is going to be ongoing therapy provided to the survivors and the victims' families, and I hope it is helpful to them in dealing with the aftermath.

 

[RichardH]

I get what you're saying and I know other Forums are different, but instead of it being about the sadness of so many killed, it's turning into a disagreement about beliefs and some political rhetoric (?). I don't think that kind of thing belongs here, but I leave it up to the bartenders...... carry on.....

A valid point indeed!

 

[RichardH]

Thank you for answering my question. That is a wonderful story, and that boy really is a hero.

I really am hoping the best for the survivors, especially the children. I can't imagine that seeing that amount of violence is an easy thing to overcome as a child. I am assuming that there is going to be ongoing therapy provided to the survivors and the victims' families, and I hope it is helpful to them in dealing with the aftermath.

Yeah I hope they have some sort of therapy program set up or something, since they're probably scarred for life.

 

[sheeplady]

The great thing about children is that they are incredibly resilient. They will need someone to help them process what happened and deal with their emotions, but if they get what they need they will likely be able to overcome what they saw and experienced. It will always be with them, but it doesn't have to rule their lives.

I had a girl friend in college who walked in on her mother trying to violently murder her two younger siblings. That is the tip of the iceberg of what happened in that house. My friend was very well adjusted and went on to become a therapist. Her younger sister is a teacher.