Terror attack in Oslo, Norway

[V.C. Brunswick]

Is it just me or does he look like Prince William? :eeek:

He seems to have an overdevloped sense of his own superiority too, describing himself as "refined" in comparison to the yokels in the rural area where he planned his atrocities...his example of refinement being Lacoste sweaters, ye gods....!

After further reading of the news stories it seems that "Mr. Refinement" also has a love for violent video games -- that explains a lot of things.

 

[Woland]

What makes me wonder is what his financial situations is. I'm guessing Norway doesn't have a death penalty, but instead incarcerates criminals of this magnitude for 21 years, and more if they deem it necessary, like if they thought he may still pose a threat. So a person like him knowing this, let's just speculate, that he is in financial straights. He's going to hit the skids and be on the streets. Yeah, he has a manifesto and spouts all his dogma for a while, and figures that an atrocious act like this will put him in prison for a long time. Make it big so he can get the maximum sentence. He now has a roof over his head, clothes on his back and three meals a day. Living fairly comfortable (so to speak) for 21+/- years.

I know it sounds horrible in light of the deaths, I apologize. But it is one possible scenario that came to mind for this character.

Cheers!

Dan

That has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The Swine comes from a well-to-do family and was living his pitiful excuse for a life under more than comfortable conditions.

And; prison is prison, even in Norway...

He will more than probably not see the outside world again in his life.
Yet; I fear that he might manipulate forces within the psychiatric ward and at some point in time be eligible for parole.

 

[avedwards]

That has absolutely nothing to do with it.

The Swine comes from a well-to-do family and was living his pitiful excuse for a life under more than comfortable conditions.

And; prison is prison, even in Norway...

He will more than probably not see the outside world again in his life.
Yet; I fear that he might manipulate forces within the psychiatric ward and at some point in time be eligible for parole.

I agree. Whilst DanielJones' theory is interesting I must respectfully disagree with it. Prison is prison and nobody can imagine how much of a punishment being locked up is until they've experienced it. I once had the pleasure of being arrested and locked up for six hours and I can guarantee it is not an experience I would care to repeat no matter how bad my financial situation is, so I doubt anyone would want to be locked up for 21 years.

That said, I think 21 years in prison is not a suitable punishment as he might end up doing this all over again. Whilst I disagree with the death penalty I do like the way the American justice system puts people in prison for a certain number of years for each homicide, so if he committed 90 murders he'd be in prison for 90x the normal homicide sentence. Someone as deluded as this urchin deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life, and I hope in time he'll be forgotton by the media and have none of the attention he wants.

By the way, how did your experience meeting one of the survivors go?

 

[DanielJones]

Just a theory Woland, no offense to your country is meant by it. I don't condone any of his actions no matter what his reasoning. It is truly hard to really wrap ones mind around what this person has done. Yes, prison is prison, but for some it is better than living on the streets. Some folks commit crimes just so they can go to prison. In his case he was well off and still knew he would go to prison for a long, long time. His mental state is going to be one for the books for sure, he will be studied for a long time to come. If he has contact with the outside world, than I fear that he could manipulate those of like mind to so something similar. Who knows?

Cheers!

Dan

 

[DanielJones]

Basically, he needs to be buried under the prison.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[Woland]

By the way, how did your experience meeting one of the survivors go?

It was heartbreaking...

Am now removing myself from the situation (as much as possible).

Going down to the summer-house with Missus and kids.
A time for being family...

Be well.

 

[Puzzicato]

Very surprisingly for the Evening Standard, I thought this editorial was excellent.

Distinctions of political shade - even extreme ones - are near-on meaningless beside the distinction between people who plan solo killing sprees against teenage civilians and people who, well, don't. This was not a Right-wing massacre or a Left-wing massacre.

It was a massacre massacre.

The political ideology to which our Anders subscribed has to be understood as an epiphenomenon of his psychology, rather than vice versa: no more meaningful than the football team he supports, the video games he enjoys (God help us) or the colour of his hair. This isn't just a debating point. If we treat madness as political, we sell short politics and we valorise madness.
...
It's understandable that, faced with horrific events, we reach for explanations in political ideology and solutions in state action. The need to find meaning in the world, or project meaning onto it, is one of the profoundest human drives. But what happened in Norway was simply nuts.

Horrible, evil, monstrous, unspeakable, shocking, yes. But above all, nuts. Sometimes you just have to accept meaninglessness as meaningless

 

[avedwards]

It was heartbreaking...

Am now removing myself from the situation (as much as possible).

Going down to the summer-house with Missus and kids.
A time for being family...

Be well.

I wish you, your family, the survivors and your country all the best in recovering from this tragedy.

The whole incident upset me a lot even though I have no connections to Norway, mostly because I am exactly the sort of person this psychopath had in mind in his ridiculous "manifesto" - those who are politically active and who oppose his views.

 

[Puzzicato]

I wish you, your family, the survivors and your country all the best in recovering from this tragedy.

The whole incident upset me a lot even though I have no connections to Norway, mostly because I am exactly the sort of person this psychopath had in mind in his ridiculous "manifesto" - those who are politically active and who oppose his views.

That was something that struck me too. The Foreign Minister, Jonas Gahr Store, said "The country has no finer youth than young people who go for a summer camp doing politics, doing discussions, doing training, doing football, and then they experience this absolutely horrendous act of violence," and I think this is partly what makes it so shocking - these were intelligent, engaged, motivated young people who should be growing up to be doctors, scientists and lawyers, game-changers in their country and their potential has been cut off.

 

[Drappa]

And then there's other nutters like Glenn Beck who compared the kids on that island to the Hitler Youth (video on the Guardian). Sometimes words just fail.

 

[LocktownDog]

I saw the Beck statement this morning and almost dropped my coffee. He nauseates me every time he speaks.

 

[Drappa]

I saw the Beck statement this morning and almost dropped my coffee. He nauseates me every time he speaks.

I know. Free speech is an admirable ideal, but too many people regularly abuse it. There's fine line between staing an opinion and inciting hatred.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I'll be very interested when the psychological assessment comes out (as it surely must) with the trial reports.

I haven't read the manifesto, and probably won't, but what i've seen summarised on news and newspapers seems barking mad - a bit like Mein Kampf is barking mad, and BNP/EDL publications. However, the man himself doesn't necessarily strike me as mad or psychotic, or as someone who couldn't control themselves (the definition, I think of "by reason of insanity"). This is no Mr Hyde, or so it seems to me, he doesn't appear to have gone berserk. What he did seems to have been controlled, calm, and rationalised. He appears lucid and coherent and very, very angry. I'd hate for someone to get away with a "by reason of insanity" just because the crimes are so horrendous.

bk (no psychologist, or apologist)

 

[DanielJones]

Norway gunman's lawyer: Anders Behring Breivik is 'insane'
Shooter thought he would be stopped earlier, defense lawyer says

OSLO, Norway — The defense lawyer for Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian man who killed at least 76 people in a bombing and shooting spree, said in a press conference Tuesday that his client appeared to be insane...

"He hates all the Western ideas and the values of democracy ... he expects that this is the start of a war that will last 60 years...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43891225/ns/world_news-europe/

Breivik, who admitted to carrying out a bomb attack and shooting spree , told a court on Monday that two cells of collaborators were in his "Knights Templar" group that aimed to "save" Europe from Muslims.

So, what I'm getting out of this article, and it is a no kidding moment, is that this monster is a complete nutter. He hates Western ideas and the values of democracy, yet he hates the idea of Muslims overrunning the country and possibly taking over. So, what does he like? Psycologists are going to have a field day with this guy. Even his defense lawyer thinks he's off his rocker. Yet he knew what he was doing. Somehow I don't think his lawyer is going to put up the greatest of defenses, especially since this guy admitted to doing this.

I truly feel for the people of Norway. I hope that they will heal quickly but, one must not forget either. My heart goes out to the families of the victims.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[Baron Kurtz]

None of that, surely, makes one "mad". Claiming "madness" is too easy an out; too easy a way for us to explain away the everyday and , in this case, not so every day, vicious and monstrous actions of our peers without really facing up to them (the actions, and why they happen). It allows us to ignore that "dark recess of the soul" that has so exercised artists of all stripes for centuries.

The simple fact is that you don't need to be mad to kill people, even a lot of people. I believe he's wrong about democratic values, but that doesn't make him "mad". He probably thinks everyone else are the mad ones …

Where I come from "nutjob" (I think I used the word earlier) doesn't necessarily describe a mad person; just someone likely to do things that will harm others.

bk

He hates Western ideas and the values of democracy, yet he hates the idea of Muslims overrunning the country and possibly taking over. So, what does he like?

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I say an eye for an eye, myself.

Basically, he needs to be buried under the prison.

Cheers!

Dan

Now, now. Some of us just like our photos taken with guns!
<----------

Starting to see something like a pattern, here. The nutters certainly love taking pictures of themselves with their guns.

Doesn't help you can't get a jury to convict.

I'd say he is!
Yeah sadly Woland "life" isn't life anymore in prison. Too many people...
It's not really political (to keep that off the FL), the laws have just been watered down.
There is no deterrent these days....at least in the US.

 

[Oldsarge]

Now, now. Some of us just like our photos taken with guns!
<----------

Really! And I consider myself an open, reasonable, fair-minded person . . . who likes guns.

 

[avedwards]

I'll be very interested when the psychological assessment comes out (as it surely must) with the trial reports.

I haven't read the manifesto, and probably won't, but what i've seen summarised on news and newspapers seems barking mad - a bit like Mein Kampf is barking mad, and BNP/EDL publications. However, the man himself doesn't necessarily strike me as mad or psychotic, or as someone who couldn't control themselves (the definition, I think of "by reason of insanity"). This is no Mr Hyde, or so it seems to me, he doesn't appear to have gone berserk. What he did seems to have been controlled, calm, and rationalised. He appears lucid and coherent and very, very angry. I'd hate for someone to get away with a "by reason of insanity" just because the crimes are so horrendous.

bk (no psychologist, or apologist)

I think you're right. He may have a lot of mental problems, but he is by no means "insane" in my opinion. He knew what he was doing and his actions were completely deliberate. Hitler and Stalin were mad and did completely random things towards the end of their lives; Breivik's actions were not random but carefully planned out.

I hope the jury sees it this way and he receives the maximum sentence, and hopefully this translates into life imprisonment which actually means until his dying day.

 

[sheeplady]

...Some folks commit crimes just so they can go to prison.

First off, I highly doubt that this monster was trying to go to prison. He is obviously a sociopath.

There are many cases where people try to commit crimes with the intention to end up in prison (at least in the US). Typically they are cases where the people see their alternative as less pleasant than being locked up. This is one example of man that robbed $1 from a bank with the supposed purpose of getting free healthcare: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellness/nc-man-allegedly-robs-bank-health-care-jail/story?id=13887040

I have a friend that works with homeless youth, and she has told me that a well-known strategy among these young people is to openly shoplift something of little value in order to get into the juvenille justice system. There is a spike in such crimes when the first snowfall or deep freeze hits and living on the streets becomes dangerous. Since normally for this type of crime the sentence is only a few weeks/months max if the youth has no home, it holds the young person in the system long enough to get through the cold weather.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

...the man himself doesn't necessarily strike me as mad or psychotic, or as someone who couldn't control themselves (the definition, I think of "by reason of insanity"). This is no Mr Hyde, or so it seems to me, he doesn't appear to have gone berserk. What he did seems to have been controlled, calm, and rationalised. He appears lucid and coherent and very, very angry.

I agree. Furthermore, his particular psychopathy seems to fit the textbook (as far as these things go). I doubt that there's anything illuminating that can be gleaned from it. We've seen this again and again: an angry, vain and arrogant psychopath with a justifying manifesto and an agenda: to control people, destroy people, and hold the spotlight.