Tasers, Airplanes and Health Insurance

[dnjan]

I had heard about that leak detection method before as well. A good way to detect the start of fatigue cracks.
(which was no longer in place back when that door blew off of a plane a few years ago - Hawaiian Air???)

 

[Undertow]

There's another one - smoking. It's nearly serial murder if you smoke. If you're not planning to kill yourself with it, then your second hand smoke is being attributed to the death of everyone around you.

In my state, it's not allowed in public buildings, including apartment buildings (that's right, you can't technically smoke in your apartment because it houses said public), it's not allowed in bars, or restaurants, or parks, etc. My entire family smokes - except me. I hate smoking, I also find it quite irritating. I wouldn't want to be on an airline, or in a booth eating, with someone puffing away next to me.

Yet I don't want it banned in public! Smoke away! I occassionally enjoy the rare cigar, pipe or clove cigarette, and if you're addicted, here's one on me. I think it's madness to pigeon-hole smokers as if they were crusty, mincing perverts of society. Granted, being on an airplane would be daunting because you're stuck in a tight space with barely any air to breath; but in a public park!? I guess the ducks are sensitive just like us.

Diamondback and John, I've read very brief tidbits about Israel's security measures. I know they certainly don't pick bones about profiling, and they don't use these scanners because they've labelled them as dangerous to the public health!

 

[John in Covina]

Confined spaces: even in Vegas you can't smoke on an elevator.and that town is wide open for almost anything.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I once rode on a Greyhound night bus from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh squeezed in next to a guy sucking on the cheapest, foulest rope of a three-for-a-dime cigar, and pretty near suffocated. If you want to smoke on a bus or a train or a plane, do it on the roof.

 

[JimWagner]

fftopic:

I like a decent cigar. but I don't even smoke them inside my own home, let alone in someone else's home or even around others. Unless the others are also smoking. Outdoors. Or somewhere catering to cigar smokers with decent ventilation.

And frankly I consider it extraordinarily inconsiderate for smokers of anything to insist on smoking around non-smokers.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

First, almost all of what TSA does is an utter crock of bull--it's "Security Theater" and going for a "placebo effect", on the theory that if the sheeple see a strong "front end" they'll feel safer. The bad guys will just cut through the fence, or have an employee on groundcrew smuggle their cargo through, or mold plastique into flat wearable sheets that won't show up on the scanner... oh BTW, as far as I know those things and the images they create haven't been granted an exemption to "kiddie porn" statutes... just something to think about. And why do they need a full-body grope when the old way about "metal detector wand to localize, then frisk detected area" was just as effective and both faster and not grounds for Sexual Assault charges? I would even take my chances on an airline that allowed passengers with CPL's to carry their sidearms on board, since the Explosive Decompression Myth's been quite thoroughly Busted. And actually, even Israel doesn't use or need backscatter-imaging systems. Oh wait, they use common-sense and profile*, which we can't do... Just like Neil and Buzz found out during the training and prep for Apollo 11 (see A&E's Moonshot), the only ones you can count on are the ones up there in the flying Spam-can with you--and sometimes, not even all of them. This is why I'd rather fly Private/Charter rather than commercial... once you're outside of dealing with Part 135 carriers, you can secure your own plane your way as long as you're legal where you take off from and everywhere you land, and securing MY plane MY way starts with a pair of .45 autoloaders full of Glasers or other frangible ammo (perhaps first half Glasers, second half Hydra-Shoks) on my hips or tucked in my armpits.
*Hey, when they're looking for a serial-killer, nobody gives half a crap about how us 20s-30s-aged, heavyset, intelligent white males feel about being asked for initial interviews because we fit the broadest level of the profile, why should it be any different for anybody else?*snort*

Amen.

As for schools, that's lawyer-induced bull--the smart thing in a threat scenario is to disperse the potential targets as far and wide as possible...

Back when I was in school shortly after Columbine took place, they made us shut off the lights in the classroom & huddle in the corner. Even then I know that wasn't the smart thing to do.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Back when I was in school shortly after Columbine took place, they made us shut off the lights in the classroom & huddle in the corner. Even then I know that wasn't the smart thing to do.

And yet the Enlightened Modern Generation sneers and smirks at the Cold War kids and their "Duck and Cover" drills. How far we've come.

 

[Diamondback]

Hey, this "EMG" member's response plans for threats were "find concealment, then ambush and Go For The Throat"--people said I was paranoid, then Columbine happened. And then I had to have a sit-down with Admin about "why you people are IDIOTS, and why I'm only a threat when and to a theoretical specific individual who's immediately threatening me and only for the duration that they choose to remain a threat"... *snort*

Stupid meatbag apekin... which should be noted as an epithet applicable against the species in general and not any specific slice of it. (But there is a good reason some from my demographic refer to "the Lower 97"...)

Agreed on the inconsiderateness of smokers who insist on lighting up around nonconsenting nonsmokers, but it's just as inconsiderate when some Barney/Betty Bluenose anti-smoking zealot insists on invading a known haven like say an independently-ventilated cigar lounge and demanding they shut down just to kowtow to their "Thou Shalt Have No Fun" puritanical (note SMALL "P", not referring to the religion) agenda.

Looks like I've watched a little too much House lately... please note for the record my snark is targeted at society in general and some specific morons from my past, and not any of my fellow FL'ers.

 

[fluteplayer07]

Amen.



Back when I was in school shortly after Columbine took place, they made us shut off the lights in the classroom & huddle in the corner. Even then I know that wasn't the smart thing to do.

The security drills never made sense to me. Assuming it was a student bent on revenge (and who else would it be? It's not like a random ax-murderer off the street would want to deal with a bunch of snot-nosed teenagers cooped up in lecture hall), they would already know where everyone was anyways, considering they went to the school themselves!

And did anyone hear about that case with the kindergardener being suspended for drawing a picture of him and his friend playing with water squirt-guns?

School administration. Our tax dollars at work.

 

[kyboots]

Not only did you have a shotgun in your truck or car for after school, we use to build what people call now "pipe bombs" and take cut metal pipes and shoot fire crackers, batteries, etc. Why! because we wanted to see what we could do and the fire power.Nothing sinister, but we would build rockets and shoot objects out of cannons and see what we could develope. The story of the kid from West Virginia going to the science contest and being a world famous rocket expert could never happen in the present day current environment ? "October ? ".We were careful knowing there was a risk with anything and mainly worked outside. Other than melting my best friend's TV in his basement, we had no true problems.--- John

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Not only did you have a shotgun in your truck or car for after school, we use to build what people call now "pipe bombs" and take cut metal pipes and shoot fire crackers, batteries, etc. Why! because we wanted to see what we could do and the fire power.Nothing sinister, but we would build rockets and shoot objects out of cannons and see what we could develope. The story of the kid from West Virginia going to the science contest and being a world famous rocket expert could never happen in the present day current environment ? "October ? ".We were careful knowing there was a risk with anything and mainly worked outside. Other than melting my best friend's TV in his basement, we had no true problems.--- John

I belive you are think of October Sky.

 

[MariantheLibrarian]

Amen.



Back when I was in school shortly after Columbine took place, they made us shut off the lights in the classroom & huddle in the corner. Even then I know that wasn't the smart thing to do.

Our school intruder plan has us do this now. Never mind that all the classroom doors are glass.

Forget that nonsense. We have an intruder alert, I'm taking whoever's in the library back into the back workroom with me. It has two doors that only unlock from the inside, good cell phone reception, and no windows. Worst case scenario, we go into the hidden storage closet.

 

[scottyrocks]

We have a number of those safety things at our school for intruders and 'air raids.'

In certain areas of the school, we cant even hear the announcements. A lot of good that does.

When theres an 'air raid' drill announcement, I am constantly questioned about why I keep the kids in a two-story tall gym with small windows at the very top and not march them out into the picture-window-lined hallway. Maybe its because the main part of the building with the classrooms with large windows and windowless hallways. But people, evidently, are ruled more by procedure than the common sense that comes from just taking a look around.

 

[John in Covina]

From what i have heard and read, in Israel most of the teachers and administrators are armed and have had military training. This is why you hear of so few terrorist attacks on schools in Israel.

 

[Widebrim]

Our local school has two women in charge and no detectors or tasers in sight. Of course, one is ex Army and the other is ex Marines. They're trained--and the kids know it--to take care of WAY more than a teenager with an attitude!

Oh, I like that.:eusa_clap At my former junior high, most of the P.E. coaches were veterans, including the one I feared the most--a survivor of a WWII Japanese POW camp. When I taught middle school, the fact that many of the students knew that I was an Army vet (and strict), likely helped prevent many "unpleasant" events from transpiring...

Regarding flying, I would sign a waiver rather than be "frisked." Smoking, though, is another matter. I remember how it was when nicotine was king, and don't want to go back to inhaling second-hand smoke (at least not in a confined, ventless area). And I agree that if a nut wants to commit a massacre at the average school, he'll figure out a way to do it despite whatever security measures are taken (although certain security measures can at least make it harder for him to do so). Now in a small school, if the students know that an unidentified teacher/administrator is packing heat, then maybe that would prove preventative (and I'd do the packing, if asked at my school).

 

[RockyHorror]

I went to public school, admittedly in a smaller city, but we never had metal detectors/police/etc.. We also didn't really have after school dances, because that was just asking for trouble haha, and none of the students minded. I think the public school environment is much different in the US and Canada, and for that I feel very lucky to be Canadian. My school wassn't massive but even comparatively therewas very little violence. I think that those extra "safety" procedures would rather alienate the student and create a more angry attitude towards the establishment. I don't think kids need to feel threatened to prevent incidents, but rather understood.

 

[Aviator]

I think comparing the security at Israel's three international/<10 domestic airports with the hundreds of primary (+10K passengers) airports in the US is a folly. We have a much larger flow of people, making the problems of security exponentially more difficult. As for use of scanners: If you were in the TSA making policy decisions to heighten airport security, you would be foolish not to look at all available means to make air travel safer. Technology is just one aspect, but a very important one (and that technology is probably a deterrent, as well). People are up in arms about the scanners and pat-downs, but if a plane was hijacked and the hijackers were cleared through a domestic terminal, Americans would FREAK. Also, I wouldn't be too concerned with the images off the latest scanners being labeled pornography; they don't have the capacity to store or save images.

I don't believe most people don't have an issue with behavioral profiling, it's racial profiling they have a problem with. It is ineffective and wouldn't have stopped Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab (the Underwear Bomber), Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph (the abortion clinic bomber), or Richard Reid (the Shoe Bomber).

 

[glynb]

The town where I grew up is like that now, and when I see all the money they're spending on this stuff I have to wonder who, exactly, they think they're protecting the kids against. A random, wandering moose wielding a spork?

Newbie here, but I have experience in the issues of which we speak. The reason for all of the school security can be said with two words- Columbine, and Liability. After the Columbine massacre the school system and local LE Agencies were sued for millions because the security in the schools, and the tactics used by the police were seen as negligent. Now, overkill is the standard operating procedure. This is not all bad. You should know that foreign terrorist organizations have made it public that a target they would like to attack in America is a school for maximum terror effect. Do you remember the school that was attacked in Russia a few years ago by Chechen terrorists?. That can happen here, we have just been lucky so far.

As far as airplane security goes I wholeheartedly agree the security procedures that are used at airports is borderline ridiculous. The Israelis have airport and airplane security down to a fine art. They use metal detectors, but mostly rely on highly trained Security Agents who use profiling and intelligence to catch terrorists. They have a very good record with these techniques. When was the last time you ever heard of an El Al plane being hijacked? The reason it's not used in the U.S. is because profiling is seen as not "politically correct", so the "shotgun" effect is used-search everybody and hope you catch the bad guy-not a good approach. Politically correct eventually gets people hurt or killed IMHO.

Just my .02

glynb

 

[Undertow]

I think comparing the security at Israel's three international/<10 domestic airports with the hundreds of primary (+10K passengers) airports in the US is a folly. We have a much larger flow of people, making the problems of security exponentially more difficult...

Not drawing comparisons would be folly. Although there may be fewer Israeli airports, those airports are at the very least, mired in "terrorism". In any case, I disagree with your choice of words.

As for use of scanners: If you were in the TSA making policy decisions to heighten airport security, you would be foolish not to look at all available means to make air travel safer. Technology is just one aspect, but a very important one (and that technology is probably a deterrent, as well). People are up in arms about the scanners and pat-downs, but if a plane was hijacked and the hijackers were cleared through a domestic terminal, Americans would FREAK. Also, I wouldn't be too concerned with the images off the latest scanners being labeled pornography; they don't have the capacity to store or save images.

Again, I must disagree with your choice of words. The TSA screening machines DO, in fact, have the capacity, they are simply "disabled" by the manufactuer prior to receipt.
Body scanners can store, send images, group says

Why split hairs? Well, if the recent TSA chicanery makes any difference, I'd just as soon "opt-out" of this "security feature".
TSA Prank
TSA forces cancer survivor to show prosthetic breast

In any case, if we paid as much attention to our food as we do our airplane security, we'd probably save many more lives. [huh]

 

[Diamondback]

And like I said, "use metal detector wand to localize frisk pattern" works just as well and faster.

Excuse me, I don't mean to belittle anyone else's experience, but how many of you have gone toe-to-toe with a suicide-bomber, even a hoax-bomber? I have, and this was before I even graduated high-school, which I now call my "Civics Final From Hell." How many here had offered to trade their lives for their classmates', despite personally despising the lot of them, at that age?

*crickets chirping*

As for Beslan, when that went down, along with several college-campus spree-killings, the Chancellor of my college was an advisor to Homeland Security about collegiate matters, and he brought me in as one of his advisors--I had been working with Security war-gaming out various scenarios for a while, plus he also used me as Media Liaison to my other job, the college paper. I'm also Defense Department Level I Antiterror Certified, so I believe I have some cred here.

Am I an Arrogant SOB? Maybe--hell, probably--but I also do know that of which I speak, even if not as credentialed as some schmuck with a fancy longwinded title and a bunch of letters after his name.

Respectfully submitted.