Stetson Quality Experiment "Think Tank"

[feltfan]

I am but a grasshopper in the presence of the venerable feltfan.

That has to be the most shameless attempt to get me to
buy a round at Trader Vic's that I have ever seen.

Especially when you've got a guy like Dinerman around who
knows as much as any of us and is half my age. And probably
not old enough to buy a round at Trader Vic's, either. BTW,
Dinerman, I have to admit to being the guy who paid a
bundle for that 1942 5X clear beaver:

I've been meaning to post it for a while. I may save it for my upcoming post,
"The Evolution of the Cowboy Hat", which is waiting for my friend to
return my digital camera. That hat was a prize from the New Deal government
and it's a dream of a hat.

Anyway, that said, I think the guy who really gets it here is:

I'm afraid though that the reality is that many of these designations were pure marketing hype and that the names assigned to them developed organically and without much regard to how these whims related to one another over decade after decade of trying to differentiate their product from others.

:eusa_clap
One thing I really enjoy about the Fedora Lounge is all these people
who are logical thinkers, computer-saavy, or anal retentive collectors
trying to impose order on chaos. I'm counting myself in here!

What is interesting about this is not to say we're all wasting our time.
We are learning a lot here. What is interesting is that this is the stuff
of history. These hats come from a time before computers and even in
some way before cars. Today's mentality is formed by new releases
of software or hardware or automobiles with new features. Progress
marches on in a measureable way today. Version 2.0 is better than
version 1.0; the 2009 Toyota Camry is safer, faster, and has better
fuel efficiency than the 2008. It was looser in the Golden Era-
more style, less calculation.

Hats are frippery. They are visual accents, at least as regards style.
The most interesting part of the passage from "The Cowboy at Work"
that Lefty pointed us to is the THIRD paragraph:
"Very few riders know much about the quality of hats or can distinguish
one from another in respect to quality". Yeah, the hat or something
about the hat's marketing catches their eye. Not because of its standing
in the quality/model/price/felt type matrix.

Which is not to say we shouldn't try. There is stuff to be learned.
BTW, have I mentioned my Resistol 100 "King's 50" with the $50 price tag?

 

[Stan]

7X clear beaver was $50. 100 was $100. 5x- that's the only example I have ever seen or heard of outside of modern crap.
7x is still produced, but the examples I've felt are worse than vintage 3xs (so are the current 10xs).

Hi,

Thanks! A slight cross-up still existed there, which is now corrected.

So, I can skip the 5x for now and keep looking for 7x/50 and 100 versions. I have a 'no-x' and a 3x and a 4x at this point. It's all really curiosity on my part. It's not like I really need any more hats. But, then I bet that goes for all of us.....lol

Yes, I meant vintage Open Roads, not modern ones. I should have said so, too. There's no point in comparing modern production with anything. I've already done that at the local western-wear store.

FWIW, I was wearing my VS OR-clone fedora that day and had several folks, including those working there, want to know where I got that great hat from.

They also wondered why I was hat shopping since I had such a nice one already, but I could not even begin to explain this disease we all share! lol

Later!

Stan

 

[Lon Goval]

Somewhere around The Lounge I've read something to the effect that the traditional cowboy hat was for those that worked on the ranch and the Open Road is for the man what *owns* the ranch.

Stan

And the Fedora was for the man collecting the mortgage payments to give the the President of the bank who wore the Homburg?

Ralph

 

[Dinerman]

BTW,
Dinerman, I have to admit to being the guy who paid a
bundle for that 1942 5X clear beaver:

That's great! I'm glad to hear it's in good hands, where it's safe and appreciated. Is the sweatband as wide as it looks?

 

[Stan]

What is interesting about this is not to say we're all wasting our time.
We are learning a lot here. What is interesting is that this is the stuff
of history. These hats come from a time before computers and even in
some way before cars. Today's mentality is formed by new releases
of software or hardware or automobiles with new features. Progress
marches on in a measureable way today. Version 2.0 is better than
version 1.0; the 2009 Toyota Camry is safer, faster, and has better
fuel efficiency than the 2008. It was looser in the Golden Era-
more style, less calculation.

Hats are frippery. They are visual accents, at least as regards style.
The most interesting part of the passage from "The Cowboy at Work"
that Lefty pointed us to is the THIRD paragraph:
"Very few riders know much about the quality of hats or can distinguish
one from another in respect to quality". Yeah, the hat or something
about the hat's marketing catches their eye. Not because of its standing
in the quality/model/price/felt type matrix.

Which is not to say we shouldn't try. There is stuff to be learned.
BTW, have I mentioned my Resistol 100 "King's 50" with the $50 price tag?

Hi,

Yes, I had this same sort of thought months ago.

I'm in the hi-tech world, and have been for decades. You are right. I can point to things and tell you, with reams of test data to back me up, that v2.1 is much, much better than v 2.0 is!

However, my upbringing was not quite so logically structured. Dad was a master machinist. He made prototype and specialty things, and even made a lot of repair parts for things long out of production for people. Usually, he just made what was needed. Maybe he had a few sketeches, maybe not. Certainly nothing resembling modern documentation. He was a master craftsman working in the manner that master craftsmen do.

Oddly enough, I tend to work the same way. I document things *after* I'm done and not before or during. It drives some of me co-workers nuts, too. lol

Now, hats were made in the same way: master craftsmen doing what they do. If there's logic involved, then it'll be 'fuzzy' in nature and subject to change at any time for a different fuzzy logic. Then, it might change back again! You know: We tried 'this' thinking it was better, but it really isn't so we changed it back......

In the midst of this fuzziness, there were others in the company trying to sell hats to folks what already had hats and so needed something to catch their attention. As in nifty new names for what is in reality the same thing with only a few differences.

And no one bothered to document diddly/squat. It was make hats and sell hats, not keep detailed records. Writing it down would only take time away from making hats to sell, right?

I figured when I saw this thread start up that it'd be interesting to see what developed, but I'd not be surprised if there were only more confusion instead of less as a result.

Amazingly, there has been more sense made than I thought there could be. And all because everyone wants to know how the makers thought back when.

Ya gotta love it! I certainly do.

Later!

Stan

 

[Stan]

And the Fedora was for the man collecting the mortgage payments to give the the President of the bank who wore the Homburg?

Ralph

Hi,

Let us not forget the Major Stockholder of the bank who wears the Top Hat!

I gotta remember this sequence! lol

Later!

Stan

 

[Lefty]

And no one bothered to document diddly/squat. It was make hats and sell hats, not keep detailed records. Writing it down would only take time away from making hats to sell, right?

Stetson did keep records. The problem is that the company (and other various companies and subsidiaries that it owned/merged with) changed hands and licensed its name quite a few times. Each new owner wanted to improve the company that had [nearly] died and take it in a new direction. Historical documents were tossed to make room for John Travolta cut-outs and perfume ads.*

*Don't take that literally. They were just tossed.

 

[carter]

I wonder what the chances are of finding records from companies outside the US who were licensed to make hats using the Stetson name. What about Canada and Australia? Is it possible that old records still exist outside the continental US?

 

[GWD]

I may not be understanding your question, GWD. If that is indeed the case, please pardon me.

But, if what you're asking is whether the crown style tells us something about the hat's vintage and/or its price and quality relative to other Stetsons of its era, I'd say not likely.

To the best of my knowledge, Open Roads came to the retailers with open crowns until, oh, 15 or 20 years ago. Maybe a little earlier than that. But I recall myself and friends buying them open crowned, and I'm not quite ancient yet.

Sorry Tony, you're right I wasn't very clear. You answered my question though. I didn't realize that all hats were delivered to the store with an open crown.

A follow up question then, Was or is a thin ribboned hat considered "Dressier"?

 

[carter]

Sorry Tony, you're right I wasn't very clear. You answered my question though. I didn't realize that all hats were delivered to the store with an open crown.

A follow up question then, Was or is a thin ribboned hat considered "Dressier"?

IMHO, I'd say it's just the opposite.

 

[jimmy the lid]

That has to be the most shameless attempt to get me to
buy a round at Trader Vic's that I have ever seen.

I am shocked, and, frankly, more than a little bit offended. Could you make mine a Fogcutter?

Cheers,
JtL

 

[GWD]

IMHO, I'd say it's just the opposite.

I agree with you Carter, but it seems the majority of the high dollar Stetsons all seem to have thin ribbons.

 

[carter]

I agree with you Carter, but it seems the majority of the high dollar Stetsons all seem to have thin ribbons.

This is true when considering Flagships, Open Roads, Stratoliners, but Whippets, Continentals, and others have wider ribbons. There's just no rule of thumb.
Also, there is a prevalent belief that the OR is/was a bridge from a "working" hat to a more dressy western-style hat.
Then we have all the OR clones such as the Champ Circle C Brand, the Dobbs West, the Borsalino Stockman, the non-OR Stetsons that emulate an OR, etc.

 

[GWD]

I'm referring to the "Clear Beaver" hats that sold for $50.00 up to $100 are there any out there that came with a wide ribbon? Dinerman's 7X Clear Beaver with the mode edge originally came with a thin ribbon.

I don't think I've seen one.

 

[Dinerman]

I'm referring to the "Clear Beaver" hats that sold for $50.00 up to $100 are there any out there that came with a wide ribbon? Dinerman's 7X Clear Beaver with the mode edge originally came with a thin ribbon.

I don't think I've seen one.

This 7x clear beaver of mine (which I posted last page) didn't come with a thin ribbon, it's my other 7x I re-ribboned. This is the original ribbon on this one. I've seen a stetson 100 with a tall crown, short brim, and wide black ribbon on the bay, but that was months and months ago and I didn't save any pictures.

And let's not forget this one:

 

[GWD]

Sorry Dinerman, I misunderstood your post. Good, that helps!

 

[GWD]

I should have named this the "Stetson Quality Think Tank"

If anyone here disagrees with my logic in regards to the categories I've come up with or has some sort of evidence to the contrary please chime in!

You can't hurt my feelings (my wife says I have none). This is for the good of the community!

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Anyway, that said, I think the guy who really gets it here is:

"Originally Posted by HarpPlayerGene
I'm afraid though that the reality is that many of these designations were pure marketing hype and that the names assigned to them developed organically and without much regard to how these whims related to one another over decade after decade of trying to differentiate their product from others."

When I read that I'm the guy who gets it, I was quite pleased with myself. Then, I realized that I'm also a guy who was one of these advertising/marketing 'hypers' for over 20 years contributing to these sorts of problems and my head shrunk right back down to a size 7 again!

 

[carter]

I should have named this the "Stetson Quality Think Tank"

If anyone here disagrees with my logic in regards to the categories I've come up with or has some sort of evidence to the contrary please chime in!

You can't hurt my feeling (my wife says I have none). This is for the good of the community!

Not even ONE?

 

[GWD]

Not even ONE?

LMAO nope! lol