So trivial, yet it really ticks you off.

[tonyb]

^^^^
Pardon me, but I'm not sure I understand. Is this "tree lawn" what might elsewhere be called a "planting strip," meaning that patch of greenery between the sidewalk and the roadway?

What elevation gain are we dealing with here? Over what horizontal distance?

 

[sheeplady]

No this stair crosses the easement, the tree lawn. The house has no drive way, so one must enter the lot from the street. The town's corporation counsel has got it in to his head that the town would face liability under the ADA for these stairways, and so he has unilaterally condemned all of them. Of course, no reasonable interpretation of the ADA would support this, but when did that matter?

I'm trying to picture this... so there's an easement next to the road and/or sidewalk. Your house is on a "bank" so there's concrete stairs going up said bank, some of which are on said easement?

Ummm.... so we have a fishing easement on our property. We can do whatever we want as fair as said property, as long as we don't block access. (For instance, we could fence it, but we have to have a gate. We can build there, but we can't build a structure over the entire space.) The state (they hold the easement) does take on 100% liability for any activities in said easement (unless someone is hurt on our structure, etc.). But it's our property. Unless it's written into the easement you can't have stairs or you're subject to laws regarding things like the ADA, I don't understand how they can have any action against you. It's still your property... you can bet you pay taxes on it. But I'm not a lawyer.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Waking up at 4 am with a violent clenching pain in my side ticks me off, especially when I'm still buried under bills for the stupid appendecomy I had earlier this year. Ended up going to work at 6am because I couldn't get back to sleep, but the pain got so severe I had to bag the rest of the day and go to the emergency room -- which I almost didn't make, after the brakes started locking up again on the Subaru. Spent pretty much the whole day in the ER writhing in pain, swearing like I had a demon, and frightening the janitors. Four x-rays and a cat scan later they tell me I have a 4mm kidney stone that I can look forward to passing over the next few days.

The first thing they did when they got me processed was give me a shot of morphine, that's how bad it hurt. And then a second and a third one because it kept on hurting. I was starting to hum "St. James Infirmary Blues" before they finally switched me to something else.

I can see, though, how people get addicted to opioids.

Kidney stones are hereditary in my family -- my mother has them often -- so it's just another thing to look forward to with the approach of my dotage. Whee.

 

[Inkstainedwretch]

It's only when the symptoms include your head rotating 180 degrees and projectile-vomiting green goo together with cursing in a basso profundo voice that you really have to start worrying.

 

[tonyb]

Waking up at 4 am with a violent clenching pain in my side ticks me off, especially when I'm still buried under bills for the stupid appendecomy I had earlier this year. Ended up going to work at 6am because I couldn't get back to sleep, but the pain got so severe I had to bag the rest of the day and go to the emergency room -- which I almost didn't make, after the brakes started locking up again on the Subaru. Spent pretty much the whole day in the ER writhing in pain, swearing like I had a demon, and frightening the janitors. Four x-rays and a cat scan later they tell me I have a 4mm kidney stone that I can look forward to passing over the next few days.

The first thing they did when they got me processed was give me a shot of morphine, that's how bad it hurt. And then a second and a third one because it kept on hurting. I was starting to hum "St. James Infirmary Blues" before they finally switched me to something else.

I can see, though, how people get addicted to opioids.

Kidney stones are hereditary in my family -- my mother has them often -- so it's just another thing to look forward to with the approach of my dotage. Whee.

When you reeeaaalllly need 'em, you can thank the god of your choice for potent pain meds.

I believe the research indicates that when allowed to administer pain meds themselves, most patients use lower dosages than they would have been given by their nurses and physicians.

 

[vitanola]

I'm trying to picture this... so there's an easement next to the road and/or sidewalk. Your house is on a "bank" so there's concrete stairs going up said bank, some of which are on said easement?

Ummm.... so we have a fishing easement on our property. We can do whatever we want as fair as said property, as long as we don't block access. (For instance, we could fence it, but we have to have a gate. We can build there, but we can't build a structure over the entire space.) The state (they hold the easement) does take on 100% liability for any activities in said easement (unless someone is hurt on our structure, etc.). But it's our property. Unless it's written into the easement you can't have stairs or you're subject to laws regarding things like the ADA, I don't understand how they can have any action against you. It's still your property... you can bet you pay taxes on it. But I'm not a lawyer.

No. No. In Michigan the space between the sidewalk and the street is colloquially called the "Easement". In other parts of the country it is known as the "Tree Lawn", "Verge", "Tree Strip", "Sidewalk buffer", and by many other names. This is the part of a homeowner's lot which may be used for public purposes from time to time, for road work, utilities, etc. In my case, the Tree Lawn, which is 10 feet deep from the curb to the sidewalk, rises about four feet in that ten foot run. Since my only access to the property is via the stair which traverses this strip the condition of these stairs is of great import.

As far as I can tell the ADA has been misinterpreted by our city attorney to prohibit the maintenance of my stair. He maintains that, since the city has an easement to the area that the city could conceivably be considered to be in control of the area, and therefore it might be possible that the city would be liable for any potential ADA suit brought about by the presence of my stair in the center of the block. Oddly enough, the street itself has a ten percent grade, too dangerous to be safely traversed by a wheel chair. In addition the sidewalk on my side of the block has areas where the grade approaches twenty percent, so nothing else about our block is accessible.

I did find it interesting that when I injured myself trying to get to my house from the street and I mentioned it to the city attorney he warned me against trying to get a settlement from the city,

 

[tonyb]

Unless I'm misinformed on this matter, in Seattle the planting strip is not the property of the owner of the property it fronts, but the property owner is responsible for its upkeep. (Sort of like how residents are responsible for clearing snow from the city-owned sidewalks in front of their homes here in greater Denver.) Further, there are restrictions on what might be done with the planting strip -- what kinds of trees might be planted (good reason for that restriction, obviously), how tall the grass can be, etc. -- although anecdotal observation indicates that those restrictions aren't actively enforced.

A rise of approximately 48 inches over a 10-foot run could be safely ramped only with a couple (minimally) switchbacks. The rule of thumb for wheelchair ramps is nothing steeper than one inch of rise to each foot of run. So in this case, you'd need about 48 feet of ramp.

I know of no disability-rights activists (I know a few) who would ask that of a private homeowner. A public accommodation might be another matter.

 

[sheeplady]

No. No. In Michigan the space between the sidewalk and the street is colloquially called the "Easement". In other parts of the country it is known as the "Tree Lawn", "Verge", "Tree Strip", "Sidewalk buffer", and by many other names. This is the part of a homeowner's lot which may be used for public purposes from time to time, for road work, utilities, etc. In my case, the Tree Lawn, which is 10 feet deep from the curb to the sidewalk, rises about four feet in that ten foot run. Since my only access to the property is via the stair which traverses this strip the condition of these stairs is of great import.

As far as I can tell the ADA has been misinterpreted by our city attorney to prohibit the maintenance of my stair. He maintains that, since the city has an easement to the area that the city could conceivably be considered to be in control of the area, and therefore it might be possible that the city would be liable for any potential ADA suit brought about by the presence of my stair in the center of the block. Oddly enough, the street itself has a ten percent grade, too dangerous to be safely traversed by a wheel chair. In addition the sidewalk on my side of the block has areas where the grade approaches twenty percent, so nothing else about our block is accessible.

I did find it interesting that when I injured myself trying to get to my house from the street and I mentioned it to the city attorney he warned me against trying to get a settlement from the city,

Ok, thank you for taking the time to explain that to me. I grew up in the country and had no knowledge of those terms. I think here it might be called the "sidewalk strip" and I've also heard it called "the hell strip" due to its inability to grow anything if it's narrow.

I could be totally wrong on those terms though too.

But does the city actually have an easement in your deed? In rural areas the road typically has an easement of so many feet from the middle of the road, as do utilities.

All around that's rather stupid. And as Tony says, there's very few with sense that would care.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Unless I'm misinformed on this matter, in Seattle the planting strip is not the property of the owner of the property it fronts, but the property owner is responsible for its upkeep. (Sort of like how residents are responsible for clearing snow from the city-owned sidewalks in front of their homes here in greater Denver.) Further, there are restrictions on what might be done with the planting strip -- what kinds of trees might be planted (good reason for that restriction, obviously), how tall the grass can be, etc. -- although anecdotal observation indicates that those restrictions aren't actively enforced.

This is the way it is here in Texas...and everywhere else I've ever lived too. It's not an easement. Your property line ends 10 feet or so from the sidewalk. Nonetheless, the homeowner is responsible for the upkeep all the way to the roadway, and people tend to think "if I mow it, it's mine".

 

[HudsonHawk]

But does the city actually have an easement in your deed? In rural areas the road typically has an easement of so many feet from the middle of the road, as do utilities.

This is the way it is at my "place" out in the country. My property extends across the county road, and there is an easement of so many feet wide on which there is a county maintained blacktop and a flood ditch. But at my house in "the city", my property line is about 15 feet from the edge of the road (we don't have sidewalks). I assume this is because in the country, property lines were drawn up long before there were paved roads and utilities.

 

[Stearmen]

Waking up at 4 am with a violent clenching pain in my side ticks me off, especially when I'm still buried under bills for the stupid appendecomy I had earlier this year. Ended up going to work at 6am because I couldn't get back to sleep, but the pain got so severe I had to bag the rest of the day and go to the emergency room -- which I almost didn't make, after the brakes started locking up again on the Subaru. Spent pretty much the whole day in the ER writhing in pain, swearing like I had a demon, and frightening the janitors. Four x-rays and a cat scan later they tell me I have a 4mm kidney stone that I can look forward to passing over the next few days.

The first thing they did when they got me processed was give me a shot of morphine, that's how bad it hurt. And then a second and a third one because it kept on hurting. I was starting to hum "St. James Infirmary Blues" before they finally switched me to something else.

I can see, though, how people get addicted to opioids.

Kidney stones are hereditary in my family -- my mother has them often -- so it's just another thing to look forward to with the approach of my dotage. Whee.

Sorry to hear that Lizzie! I had a kidney stone several years back, I thought I was being a sissy about the pain, until several different women told me, if they had a choice between giving birth again or another kidney stone, they would chose birth! Hands down the worst pain of my life, thank God for morphine! Of course, they waited until they did all the Xrays and other test before they gave me the shot, an hour latter.

 

[Stearmen]

Spent pretty much the whole day in the ER writhing in pain, swearing like I had a demon, and frightening the janitors.

I take it your insurance isn't very good? I was lucky, and well insured at the time. I felt bad, as they took me in very quickly after I arrived, before the man next to me who was vomiting blood! I did speak up on his behalf, they told me not to worry and just concentrate on myself. That is really not right at all!

 

[GHT]

Seventy-five is still a way's off for me, but it is coming into view.
I'm a much safer driver now than I was all those years back, when my senses were sharper but my judgment was poorer. Barring anything other than the usual wear and tear, I suspect I'll be essentially as safe at 75 as I am now.

And that's the point I was making.
Traffic Cop: "How old are you Sir?"
Motorist: "I'm 74 and three hundred and sixty four days, officer."
Traffic Cop: "That's fine, Sir, of you go, and you have a good day now."

Traffic Cop: "How old are you Sir?"
Motorist: "Today is my 75th birthday officer."
Traffic Cop: "75 eh, hold out your hands Sir, while I put these cuffs on your wrists!"
Yesterday the guy was a day short of 75, today his driving is so impaired that he must relinquish his drivers licence. Well if that's what it becomes, remember that a dictator can do whatever he likes, without recourse to empathy, sympathy or courtesy.

 

[Zombie_61]

...This may become a moot point, what with the advent of the self-driving automobile...

Whatever vehicle I own at the time can drive itself home after they've pried my cold dead fingers from the steering wheel. Automobile manufacturers don't even have a 100% success rate for producing reliable vehicles, which is what they do for a living. And I'm supposed to believe they can produce 100% reliable artificial intelligence? No thank you.

...Your property line ends 10 feet or so from the sidewalk. Nonetheless, the homeowner is responsible for the upkeep all the way to the roadway, and people tend to think "if I mow it, it's mine".

For a long time I wondered why people set the fences on the front of their properties so far back from the street. We had to replace about 200 linear feet of wood fence on our property this year, and that's when I found out our property line ends 12 feet in from the curb.

 

[HudsonHawk]

For a long time I wondered why people set the fences on the front of their properties so far back from the street. We had to replace about 200 linear feet of wood fence on our property this year, and that's when I found out our property line ends 12 feet in from the curb.

I had to explain this to my wife last year when we had a front porch built on to our house. Our deed restrictions place the building setback so many feet from the property line. My wife looks at it and says "we've got plenty of room." I had to explain "no honey, our property doesn't go all the way to the curb...here is the property line (30 feet from the centerline of the street)" She was shocked it went so far up in to our front yard. Turns out our house is about three inches from the setback. We were able to get an exception from the HOA though.

 

[Trenchfriend]

That it's still some hours until lunchtime. I LONG for Bratkartoffeln!

 

[Lean'n'mean]

That it's still some hours until lunchtime. I LONG for Bratkartoffeln!

Live dangerously, have your 'pommes de terre sautées ' now.

 

[tonyb]

Whatever vehicle I own at the time can drive itself home after they've pried my cold dead fingers from the steering wheel. Automobile manufacturers don't even have a 100% success rate for producing reliable vehicles, which is what they do for a living. And I'm supposed to believe they can produce 100% reliable artificial intelligence? No thank you. ...

As to its application in self-driving cars, I have more confidence in "artificial intelligence" than the intelligence of almost all human car drivers.

Will it be "100 percent reliable"? Nope. But it'll likely be a helluva lot more reliable than what we have now.

Commercial airliners aren't perfectly, absolutely, unfailingly safe either. And when they crash it almost results in much loss of life. But we go years without such a crash. Millions of takeoffs and landings and billions of passenger miles without incident.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Sorry to hear that Lizzie! I had a kidney stone several years back, I thought I was being a sissy about the pain, until several different women told me, if they had a choice between giving birth again or another kidney stone, they would chose birth! Hands down the worst pain of my life, thank God for morphine! Of course, they waited until they did all the Xrays and other test before they gave me the shot, an hour latter.

I had major surgery in the pelvic region some years ago, and I thought that was the worst pain I could ever have, and I've had migraines that made me want to crush my skull in a vise to let the pressure out, but I've never before had anything like this. At one point I was screaming so loud I was afraid they were sizing me up for the psych unit.

My mother, always a fountain of reassuring and helpful information, calls me this morning to tell me it could have been worse, my sister had one the size of a quarter that they had to dig out surgically. Ain't I the lucky one.

I take it your insurance isn't very good? I was lucky, and well insured at the time. I felt bad, as they took me in very quickly after I arrived, before the man next to me who was vomiting blood! I did speak up on his behalf, they told me not to worry and just concentrate on myself. That is really not right at all!

My insurance is a word that rhymes with "city," if you get my drift. We've gone thru four different companies in the past four years, each crappier than before. I'm eligible for insurance thru the National Writers Union, and I'm seriously looking into that after the experiences I've had this year. The last straw was when my current insurance failed to cover a mammogram, which has never been not covered by any other insurance I've had, no matter how bad it was.

Between the appendectomy and this latest episode, I'm so buried in medical bills right now I don't even know exactly how much I owe, because every day I get a new one. Nuts to the American Health Care System.

 

[Trenchfriend]

Better stopping free market-economy, launching social market-economy, there, before it's too late...