Smokers and Hat Wearers

[Frunobulax]

And that's why we have a representative democratic republic, not mob rule.

Dave, I'm sorry the PC'ers and collectivists have invaded your personal space. It is the lay of the land these days. With the astronomical rise in health care costs across the board, and many health care companies hedging their risks, I'm surprised my company hasn't implemented such a thing. Smoking was completely banned on company property a few years ago, which has led to folks huddled out on the sidewalk smoking.

I, personally, don't smoke. I have plenty of vices, however, believe me! But darn it, dictating what you can do on your personal time is horrendous development in this day and age. The invasiveness of everybody is becoming intolerable. The fact that a fella can't go sit in a bar, have a pint and a smoke and watch the game is unAmerican.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I'd vote for it as well. My Mother died 4 years ago from lung cancer but was able to partake in that legal vice until the cancer reached her brain. Literally, for the life of her, she could not break the addiction that was the thing to do for about everyone when she started, and such an offense to most when she ended.

 

[moontheloon]

And that's why we have a representative democratic republic, not mob rule.

Dave, I'm sorry the PC'ers and collectivists have invaded your personal space. It is the lay of the land these days. With the astronomical rise in health care costs across the board, and many health care companies hedging their risks, I'm surprised my company hasn't implemented such a thing. Smoking was completely banned on company property a few years ago, which has led to folks huddled out on the sidewalk smoking.

I, personally, don't smoke. I have plenty of vices, however, believe me! But darn it, dictating what you can do on your personal time is horrendous development in this day and age. The invasiveness of everybody is becoming intolerable. The fact that a fella can't go sit in a bar, have a pint and a smoke and watch the game is unAmerican.

I agree Jim

but I also do enjoy the fact that I can go into a pub and enjoy a pint and watch the game ... all while not inhaling someones smoke

it invades others space ...

I'm not pouring my beer on you ... so why should I have to leave with your smoke all over me ?

 

[a2jacketpatches]

I agree Jim

but I also do enjoy the fact that I can go into a pub and enjoy a pint and watch the game ... all while not inhaling someones smoke

it invades others space ...

I'm not pouring my beer on you ... so why should I have to leave with your smoke all over me ?

I'm with you. The original question was how did they deal with it back then, I think it was hardly a concern and the odor was just part of life. But these days it just stanks, end of story. Smoking lounges are popping up everywhere and I even remember one place in Hyannis back about 15 years where you could get a drink with a walk in humidor to pick out a stogey. Lots of couches and recliners with a large screen TV in every one of several rooms. So there it is, smoke and choke, watch the game, chill, and drink up. But please keep it to yourself.

 

[Frunobulax]

I agree Jim

but I also do enjoy the fact that I can go into a pub and enjoy a pint and watch the game ... all while not inhaling someones smoke

it invades others space ...

I'm not pouring my beer on you ... so why should I have to leave with your smoke all over me ?

But - it should be left up to the person that owns and operates the property to operate it as he/she sees fit. And that gives the patron the right to decide whether to visit the establishment. However, with public space dissolving before our very eyes, we're losing our individual freedoms. Dave's (and others') private space has been violated. His home, his body, his very thoughts are being invaded by the insidious collectivist mentality that has infected this society.

 

[Frunobulax]

I'm with you. The original question was how did they deal with it back then, I think it was hardly a concern and the odor was just part of life. But these days it just stanks, end of story. Smoking lounges are popping up everywhere and I even remember one place in Hyannis back about 15 years where you could get a drink with a walk in humidor to pick out a stogey. Lots of couches and recliners with a large screen TV in every one of several rooms. So there it is, smoke and choke, watch the game, chill, and drink up. But please keep it to yourself.

Sorry, such a place is pretty much illegal in many states right now. Bars, restaurants, and even private clubs were caught up in this when the law took effect, even though the supporters lied and said private clubs would be exempt. The place you talk about does not exist in my state.

It isn't enough for those who don't like it to not patronize. They have to tell everybody else what to do.

And again, the only dog I have in this fight is personal freedoms. I don't smoke, nor do I plan on it. But if Dave wants to fire up a stogie and sit with me, I'll light it for him.

 

[moontheloon]

But - it should be left up to the person that owns and operates the property to operate it as he/she sees fit. And that gives the patron the right to decide whether to visit the establishment. However, with public space dissolving before our very eyes, we're losing our individual freedoms. Dave's (and others') private space has been violated. His home, his body, his very thoughts are being invaded by the insidious collectivist mentality that has infected this society.

agreed leave it up to the owner

100%

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Ultimately, 1st and 2nd hand smoke is poison. Slow and random to kill but poison. Those who get sick from it can suffer a long agonizing death with great financial and emotional expense for many. We're not talking about the personal liberties of the smoker but we are talking about public safety. Nobody is saying you can't do it in the privacy of your own home so smoke em if ya got em, but not near me or my loved ones. And any public space is just that...public.

 

[Frunobulax]

Ultimately, 1st and 2nd hand smoke is poison. Slow and random to kill but poison. Those who get sick from it can suffer a long agonizing death with great financial and emotional expense for many. We're not talking about the personal liberties of the smoker but we are talking about public safety. Nobody is saying you can't do it in the privacy of your own home so smoke em if ya got em, but not near me or my loved ones. And any public space is just that...public.

Well, that's the thing isn't it? Dave can no longer smoke in the privacy of his own home without being severely, financially penalized. I'm not OK with that.

 

[AndyR]

Well, at work, they've started an $1,800 per year surcharge for smokers with random nicotine testing as the enforcer. Evidently, one cigar a month is no different than two packs of cigarettes a day. So I'm about to say goodbye to a relaxing way to pass the evening.

Nice picture. You look content. I feel for ya man and I agree with the thoughts of Frunobulax. I'm not a smoker (never was), but I have a problem when it is so vilified. Hey, if that's the way municipalities and businesses feel, they should step up and ban it.

We've seen how well 'that' works and besides, they will never ban it because they want the tax money. Funny how things are vilified, yet kept around for the taxes. Now I guess you can add surcharges to that list.

 

[a2jacketpatches]

Well, that's the thing isn't it? Dave can no longer smoke in the privacy of his own home without being severely, financially penalized. I'm not OK with that.

Maybe he can opt out of the health insurance plan, or work for himself like me. No matter how you to slice and dice it, the smoker burdens someone else. Personally, I wouldn't want to pay for the health insurance of someone who chooses to risk their health and that of others either. Kind of ridiculous to go back and forth on this, the world has changed a little for the better, not just my opinion, fact.

 

[javadave61]

Oh wow... the discussion has ensued. I should pay more attention when I make a post!

I totally get the healthcare angle on this. I work with cancer patients, and the preventable cancer is the worst kind. And I can't blame my employer for not wanting to foot the bill. What I struggle with is the lack of distinction between the occasional cigar smoker and habitual cigarette smoker. The difference is significant. I don't inhale. I enjoy in moderation. I'm more addicted to hats than cigars (I go most winters without one). My clothes (and hats) don't smell. And studies show that someone who smokes one cigar a day has no more statistical risk of developing cancer than a non smoker. Cigar smoking is just not cigarette smoking. Recreational cigar smokers have more in common with hat enthusiasts, fine wine and beer lovers, and coffee connoisseurs than they do with cigarette smokers. Cigars have a great range of quality. They take on the flavors of the geographical region, come in different strengths and shades, they are collectible, they get better with age, and the three tobacco leaves that make up a cigar can be combined in so many ways to bring out a different taste and personality in each cigar. Each is hand made and has its own character. It's an art, just like hat making is. Just look up a good cigar forum, and you'll find the same meticulous attention to detail given to that hobby as we find here in ours.

But in the end, I realize that we have a severe public health issue with regards to cigarette smoking, and there's little room for nuance when it comes to something that sparks such passion in people.

Oh well. I'm looking forward to my next random test, so I can enjoy my next cigar that night!

 

[a2jacketpatches]

In the end, again, no matter how you slice and dice it it's a burden to someone else. Inhaling or not, exotic blend of cigar tobacco or cheap cigarette, it still stinks. The the second hand smoke is no different than piping in concentrated exhaust or paint fumes if thinking you have a right to it in a public facility. I smoked from age 17 to 43, so it's all preaching to the choir for me, I still remember the first smoke in the morning with my coffee and it takes all I have to maintain a tobacco free life. I imagine the enjoyment is very much the same for a cigar smoker. But I also remember the looks I got while smoking, and these days how the stale odor sickens me. So for those who made the healthy and popular choice to never smoke, they deserve a little common courtesy.

 

[Bob Roberts]

Oh wow... the discussion has ensued. I should pay more attention when I make a post!

I totally get the healthcare angle on this. I work with cancer patients, and the preventable cancer is the worst kind. And I can't blame my employer for not wanting to foot the bill. What I struggle with is the lack of distinction between the occasional cigar smoker and habitual cigarette smoker. The difference is significant. I don't inhale. I enjoy in moderation. I'm more addicted to hats than cigars (I go most winters without one). My clothes (and hats) don't smell. And studies show that someone who smokes one cigar a day has no more statistical risk of developing cancer than a non smoker. Cigar smoking is just not cigarette smoking. Recreational cigar smokers have more in common with hat enthusiasts, fine wine and beer lovers, and coffee connoisseurs than they do with cigarette smokers. Cigars have a great range of quality. They take on the flavors of the geographical region, come in different strengths and shades, they are collectible, they get better with age, and the three tobacco leaves that make up a cigar can be combined in so many ways to bring out a different taste and personality in each cigar. Each is hand made and has its own character. It's an art, just like hat making is. Just look up a good cigar forum, and you'll find the same meticulous attention to detail given to that hobby as we find here in ours.

But in the end, I realize that we have a severe public health issue with regards to cigarette smoking, and there's little room for nuance when it comes to something that sparks such passion in people.

Oh well. I'm looking forward to my next random test, so I can enjoy my next cigar that night!

Hard to argue with the corporate mentality.

 

[javadave61]

None of what I enjoy involves 2nd hand smoke to anyone. That's probably why I enjoy it so much. The solitude.

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

 

[Bob Roberts]

Smoke problem settled.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[javadave61]

Smoke problem settled.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I don't know. Second hand spit is no picnic.

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

 

[Bob Roberts]

Smoke problem settled.

I don't know. Second hand spit is no picnic.

Sent from my SM-G925P using Tapatalk

Lol, yes and especially if it's directed towards you...

 

[AndyR]

I don't know. Second hand spit is no picnic.

LOL! I've been the victim of second hand spit. Looking back, maybe I should have sued the chewing tobacco company.

 

[JackieMatra]

The country survived when heroin, cocaine and many other dangerous drugs with little or no theraputic benefit were banned. I'm happier to live here because of it. Cigarettes are the only consumable product I can think of that is legally sold, that when used as directed causes death. Smokers numbers are decreasing nationwide, but not nearly fast enough.

Tobacco products typically are sold with no directions as to how they should be used.
That aside, I really wonder why you wouldn't have been able to think of a single other product that might be harmful to people's health.
Alcohol, sugar and/or fat filled food, noxious gas spewing vehicles, etc., for a few examples.