Show us your Guns!

[rmrdaddy]

Something neat that's sort of on this topic -
ALCATRAZ PRISON
ARMS, AMMUNITION AND DEFENSIVE EQUIPMENT INVENTORY
April 30, 1948
http://www.notfrisco2.com/alcatraz/charts/firearms.htm

Contrary to Hollywood, no belt fed machineguns.

I found this footnote interesting though:

"5 The .45 Model 1911 was an automatic weapon, popular with the military, but not with law enforcement. Treasury agents and the Bureau of Prisons were the exception. This weapon held 20 rounds and could be modified for automatic fire. John Paul Chase's partner, "Baby-Face" Nelson had such a gun and used it to kill two FBI agents near Rheinlander, Wisconsin in 1933. The size of the bullet made the .45 a man-killer or a crippler. The ACP was made by Colt."

Did they use extra length magazines to hold 20 rounds of 45 ACP in a 1911? Tommy Gun stick mags? What?

 

[John in Covina]

I have several 10 rounders for my 1911, it would be neat to see a 20 rounder.

 

[Diamondback]

That footnote tells me the author don't know jack about guns. If a 1911 does Rock-'n'-Roll, it means the disconnector is malfunctioning and the gun is UNSAFE to operate.

A 1927 Thompson on the other hand will take a 20-round mag (it's what it's designed for, the 30-rounders and drums were an "add-on"), and the original (not the West Hurley/current "1927" can be easily reconverted to full-auto, being built from a "de-switched" full-auto 1921 Thompson.

Who wrote that piece of crap?

 

[John in Covina]

Learning from a cop-killer: the lessons of "Baby Face" Nelson
American Handgunner, July-August, 2007 by Massad Ayoob

"Though he and the gang used a wide variety of weapons, Nelson's favorites seem to have been the Thompson submachine gun (often with buttstock removed, for better concealment under a coat) and custom Lebman machine pistols made up of Colt Government Models in the two calibers of the time. Converted to full auto, these were fitted with Cutts compensators like a Thompson, and a Thompson vertical foregrip attached to the dust cover of the frame and abutting the trigger guard. Lebman also provided extended single stack magazines, which offered 18 rounds of .45 ACP or 22 rounds of .38 Super. (Girardin/Helmer, P.302) Nelson gave a Lebman/Colt machine pistol in .38 Super to Dillinger to celebrate a jailbreak."

 

[Diamondback]

John, you'll also note that Master Ayoob doesn't say anything about the "conversion"'s safety--any dipstick can disable the disconnector, but it makes it more likely to have the gun structurally fail while firing.

There's a good reason only criminals did it...

The author of those footnotes on the Rock's guns obviously does not know the context of "automatic" as used back then to mean "self-loading", as opposed to "automatic" now meaning "automatic firing".

 

[John in Covina]

you can also file the sear.

 

[John in Covina]

THere are a couple of places where they talk about conversions of Browning pistol designs converted to full auto, I think there is a book. I have personally seen the Glock full auto (18?) and Beretta 93R models at the range in Nevada. One of the coveted guns is the Czech? Skorpian and those min Uzi pistols were pretty neat. I'd like a Mauser 712 broomhandle but this state won't let me.

 

[John in Covina]

Semi-auto & Full auto were the terms used for a while.

 

[Diamondback]

G18 and 93-R are purpose-designed for safe Dump Da Mag, though, not like a hackjobbed Browning.

"Semi" and "Full" are usually still the preferred terms, although the Presstitutes try to lump semi in with select-fire.

 

[John in Covina]

Haven't found any stories about any hack job Browning blowing up yet.

 

[LukasWallace]

Won a Knoxx stock on ebay, $45 shipped. It came today, I installed it and took Vera shooting. She's long but intimidating, as another shooter commented at the range.

I think I'm in love... Absolutely beautiful. Very similar to what I'm hoping to get in the near future.

 

[Diamondback]

Conceded, John... for the record, I'm not dissing Browning--I regularly carry a 5" 1911, remember?--but by "hackjob" I mean something done by a Bubba with a hacksaw rather than a professional or even an amateur who's studied the platform, the blueprints and available references.

OTOH, if you look at the Kuhnhausen books, there is graphic illustration of 1911 structural-failures in there, so while the design is great it can still fail due to machining, metallurgy or mishandling.

----------------
Now playing: John Barry - Bond Look Alike
via FoxyTunes

 

[Jay]

I think the .45 auto conversion mentioned previously is this one down here...

It's the .45 with the Thompson-style foregrip on it.

 

[matrioshka]

Harp,

Yes, it's a 20" barrel.

MKL

The throw is about the same as my 94 Winchester. Not bad at all.

Yeah, I like the looks of it too. Someone here had a good quote about things "with the bloom worn off" it fits with this one. I thought about having it reblued, but it has too much character...

M

 

[LocktownDog]

Dutch soldiers the day before the German invasion. Curious about the rifles. Anyone know what the standard issue was? Is there anywhere I could find even a nonworking one for display?

I can never get over how young most soldiers looked in these photos. A couple of these boys look like my sons.

 

[PKM101]

Here are some....they belong to a company I work for as a contract instructor.

 

[matrioshka]

LocktownDog,

I think you'll find those soldiers in the photo are Danish. The rifle on the bottom right, the one lying on the ground, is a M1889 Danish Krag. If you look real close, you can see the loading gate on the left side of the reciever in front of the bolt handle.


M

 

[carebear]

THere are a couple of places where they talk about conversions of Browning pistol designs converted to full auto, I think there is a book. I have personally seen the Glock full auto (18?) and Beretta 93R models at the range in Nevada. One of the coveted guns is the Czech? Skorpian and those min Uzi pistols were pretty neat. I'd like a Mauser 712 broomhandle but this state won't let me.

google and "The High Road" gun forum (in this case the .org version) are our friend.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5712254

Post #11

 

[Diamondback]

Thanks for the reference, Marine. The Lebman design, while a bastardization, looks fairly professionally-done, but it's still not something I'd be gungho about--that long mag would be a serious obstacle to surreptitious deployment.

 

[John in Covina]

Conceded, John... for the record, I'm not dissing Browning--I regularly carry a 5" 1911, remember?--but by "hackjob" I mean something done by a Bubba with a hacksaw rather than a professional or even an amateur who's studied the platform, the blueprints and available references.

OTOH, if you look at the Kuhnhausen books, there is graphic illustration of 1911 structural-failures in there, so while the design is great it can still fail due to machining, metallurgy or mishandling.

*********
I do know that many guns can be overstressed and treated poorly to cause failure. I just thought that the gangsters had actual gunsmiths as amourers that did some rather interesting work. I don't know a lot about the Colt manufacturing back then but I think that if the 1911 was use in full auto as a survival weapon and not in constant use /abuse I don't think it would be a real failure threat. Were the 1911's forged,back then. Forging in supposed to be the hardier tougher frame and slide. As an aside i do recall reading that that some of the "name" gunsmiths would not work on the Auto Ord 1911 as they are cast but not forged and that affected their ability to do precision work some what.

I have seen pix of the results of some guns that were pushed too far, but don't recall any pix of a 1911 that went catastophic, that would probably be pretty scarey. The one I cringe at is when a round doesn't go right so the bullet it lodged in the barrel and the operator doesn't know. The next round is one of those really bad surprises. Yikes There are some videos on youtube. Makes me uncomfortable to watch. (Always wear eye and ear protection!)