Sex in media boosts teen promiscuity-study

[Katt in Hat]

John in Covina: The original Quote was #151 here by Section 10

Your quote of my quote of his quote left a misleading but inadvertent, I'm sure, impression that the entire thought was mine.

Section 10: "But the source of all what we call good morals comes from God."

Katt in Hatt: How Do You "Know" That This Is So?(by) Faith, Early Training, What?

Moreover, there are so very many religions practiced in the world. What of those who devoutly follow them?

 

[Lena_Horne]

Please get back on topic, I would hate to see this thread closed.

L_H

 

[John in Covina]

Partial credit

I can't answer as to the outlook of the other religions but the questions touch on the source. There are times when we all seem to want the same things in this world, and what we want for our children. Yet, so often people are at each others throats over the differences that all sameness is swallowed up by hatred. And that is a shame.

 

[Katt in Hat]

The Old Questions, The Old Answers...

Once a stranger approached Hillel and Shammai, the great sages of the first century, with a request: "Teach me the Torah while I stand on one foot."

First, he brought the request to Shammai. According to the Talmud, Shammai picked up a builder's rule, smacked him along side his head and dismissed him.

So he came to Hillel. "Teach me the Torah on one foot." Hillel taught him: "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah, all the rest is commentary. Zil u'gemar, now, go and learn."

Hillel's answer is loving, accepting and kind.

 

[Section10]

Good morning:
First of all I'd like to say that I haven't been offended in the least by any of this. I've found it to be very stimulating. What does bother me though, is that I might have done some offending by my post regarding Europe. It was a little too off the cuff and reading it now, it does sound kind of crass. I will get rid of it.

Bebop, the reason I used the term unbeliever was because I am dealing with several people here. Are they atheists, agnostics, or something else??? I was just trying to use a generic catch-all term. Not trying to be insulting.
And remember, whenever you say to someone: "I'm just as good as you are." You are already admitting to yourself that you are not. That is from a very wise European theologian by name of C.S. Lewis.

Katt, the reason I know is because moral teachings are in the Bible. I choose to believe the Bible. I choose to believe it because when I apply its teachings to my life they work and because I don't like any of the other alternatives. That's a choice. That's faith. It is faith that makes for righteousness. Which is to believe in this ultimate authority whom I call the Christian God. I have lived with this faith for some time now and I am fully prepared to die with it. Now you don't have to agree with that. That is your choice. I can live with that, but I will not sympathize with it.
Christianity contains one element alone that no other religion on earth contains-including Judaeism. But we are off topic enough here.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

so anyhoo, i've made this point before.This an attempt to get on topic since it seems to be close to closing time.

US has a real teenage pregnancy problem (or so it is said). Some blame this on the media. But the US also has one of the most conservative medias regarding sex, and some of the strictest controls (through the FCC) of what people can see and read (no naked girls in the daily tabloids here!). This compared to countries with many times lower teenage pregnancy rates.

These points do not gel. They would appear contradictory. Does the fault lie more at the door of the general culture of Suppression, Repression, Oppression of desires? Making things prohibited and attempting to scare teens actually makes the "problem" worse? So, in this sense a discussion of the religion underlying these things (Supp, Rep, Opp) is on topic.

bk

 

[Mr Nick]

Back to the first question

Does sex education and the media play a part in the promicuity of young people?
First of all, if advertising didn't work, no one would spend money on it. Secondarily, if we look back at what we call "the golden age" and examine the differences between then and now, it's really not hard to see the truth. All boys used to carry pocket knives to school, no one was stabbed. Most kids went hunting, often without adult supervision. We all remember the jokes about the rifle racks in pickup trucks. The difference, for the most part, was that most of the people made daily decisions to do what was best for others and society in general. Now most people base their decisions on what they feel is best for them. Whether you approve of it or not, no one can deny that "religion" in the past had a stronger moral influence on society than it does now. How many threads have we seen in this forum alone decrying the demise of culture and morality. Manners are a thing of the past. So is discipline and self control. I think it was John Adams who said that democracy could only flourish in the face of a strong moral conscience. Now we have devalued the foundation of our society, the family. We have devalued human life, both young and old. There is no restraint when it comes to our "passions" (no matter what they are). And we wonder about teens having sex? The same issues apply to alcoholism, crack cocaine and crystal meth.
The real answer: There's a God shaped void in every human heart. Only God can fill it and we're trying everything else imaginable. I don't want to get too far off (maybe have already). If you want to discuss more, PM me.
Theses are great discussions that shouldn't be avoided. Share the LOVE!

 

[herringbonekid]

unfortunately being 'rebellious' is part of being a teenager. rebellion became a built-in aspect of being young since elvis first appeared on TV in the mid 50s and the youth culture movement exploded. today rebellion may also include being self destructive, arrogant, reckless, foul-mouthed, substance-abusing, promiscuous.....they all come under the catch-all heading of 'cool'. it is still not 'cool' in most teen-cliques to be well behaved, considerate and kind to others. as long as there are bands who pedal the bad-attitude-is-cool myth to teenagers, who have no other role-models or are hungry to rebel against existing 'good' role-models, then they will buy it.

 

[herringbonekid]

so anyhoo, i've made this point before.This an attempt to get on topic since it seems to be close to closing time.

US has a real teenage pregnancy problem (or so it is said). Some blame this on the media. But the US also has one of the most conservative medias regarding sex, and some of the strictest controls (through the FCC) of what people can see and read (no naked girls in the daily tabloids here!). This compared to countries with many times lower teenage pregnancy rates.

These points do not gel. They would appear contradictory. Does the fault lie more at the door of the general culture of Suppression, Repression, Oppression of desires? Making things prohibited and attempting to scare teens actually makes the "problem" worse? So, in this sense a discussion of the religion underlying these things (Supp, Rep, Opp) is on topic.

bk

Baron, the UK has the highest teenage pregnancy figures in europe, but geographically and culturally we have always existed somewhere between mainland europe and the states. yes, i believe that suppressing things and labelling them as 'bad' or 'naughty' or 'dirty' adds to the appeal. we also play up to this appeal continually with advertising and TV that is full of needlessly titillating imagery. that is the hypocritical way of much of the western world : to proclaim sex as 'dirty' with one puritanical voice then to tantalise with sexual imagery at the same time.
while there may be more depictions of sex on TV over here, we have virtually the same 'sex is naughty' mindset as the US.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Oh, i'd never count Britain as being in any way sexually liberated (no sex, please!). I was referring to the Sun, Sport, NOtW etc. Page 3 girls. Nothing like that in the states - daily newspapers who's only real appeal is a naked girl just beyond the front cover ... though i could be wrong.

So, again, one of the most rep., supp., opp. country in the eurozone (media-wise) and the highest teen pregnancy rate in said eurozone

And we've all heard about the joys of French television. Titillation overdrive! Where do they stand on the teenage pregnancy ratings?

bk

 

[herringbonekid]

france is fairly low down on the teen pregnancy scale.
japan is the lowest, then switzerland, the netherlands, sweden.....



take a look:

http://www.studentbmj.com/issues/02/07/news/223.php

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Dat's a grand chart. Note: Of the top 8, 5 were populated by Brits (US, UK, NZ, Canada, Australia). Another is just across the water (Ireland) and is heavily influenced due to our past imperial ambitions.

I don't think anyone would consider Australia sexually repressive. My theory is indanger of being blown out of the water. Ah well ... life goes on

bk

 

[Bebop]

so anyhoo, i've made this point before.This an attempt to get on topic since it seems to be close to closing time.

US has a real teenage pregnancy problem (or so it is said). Some blame this on the media. But the US also has one of the most conservative medias regarding sex, and some of the strictest controls (through the FCC) of what people can see and read (no naked girls in the daily tabloids here!). This compared to countries with many times lower teenage pregnancy rates.

These points do not gel. They would appear contradictory. Does the fault lie more at the door of the general culture of Suppression, Repression, Oppression of desires? Making things prohibited and attempting to scare teens actually makes the "problem" worse? So, in this sense a discussion of the religion underlying these things (Supp, Rep, Opp) is on topic.

bk

Our media is one of the most conservative in the world. When it comes to teen pregnancy as with teenage alcohol abuse and serial killers in general, the U.S. has the higher numbers. What are we doing wrong? We also lead the world in claiming to have such high "family values". Politicians get elected because they speak, "family values". Shouldn't the U.S. be the country with the least teen sex problems? Diffucult to point a finger at one thing that causes the problem.

 

[herringbonekid]

it's to do with the percentage of poor districts with high unemployment, bad education, crime etc... in any given region of the world. basically the places where people have little opportunity or hope. those are the areas that make up the figures. the US and UK obviously have a high percentage of deprived areas.

 

[Lincsong]

it's to do with the percentage of poor districts with high unemployment, bad education, crime etc... in any given region of the world. basically the places where people have little opportunity or hope. those are the areas that make up the figures. the US and UK obviously have a high percentage of deprived areas.

That's a good point but what about the daughter of wealthy parents, who ventures in the ghetto?

 

[jamespowers]

Our media is one of the most conservative in the world. When it comes to teen pregnancy as with teenage alcohol abuse and serial killers in general, the U.S. has the higher numbers. What are we doing wrong? We also lead the world in claiming to have such high "family values". Politicians get elected because they speak, "family values". Shouldn't the U.S. be the country with the least teen sex problems? Diffucult to point a finger at one thing that causes the problem.

Where are the facts and figures for that assumption? Teen Pregnancy rates and alcohol abuse rates in europe versus America. The facts are this: From 1995 to 1998 the US did lead with 52.1 per thousand women between 15 and 19 but the rest of europe was right behind us even though they have all this "education" and the like.
UK 30.8 per thousand
Slovakia 26.9 per thousand
Hungary 26.5 per thousand
Portugal 21.2 per thousand
Ireland 18.7
Poland 18.7
Czech Republic 16.4
Austria 14
Germany 13.1
Norway 12.4
Greece 11.8
Belgium 9.9
Luxembourg 9.7
France 9.3
Finland 9.2
Denmark 8.1
Spain 7.9
Italy 6.6

Murder? Are you sure we lead the world in murders per capita? In truth we are 24th on that scale.
#1 Colombia 0.617847 per 1,000 people
#2 South Africa 0.496008 per 1,000 people
#3 Jamaica 0.324196 per 1,000 people
#4 Venezuela 0.316138 per 1,000 people
#5 Russia 0.201534 per 1,000 people
#6 Mexico 0.130213 per 1,000 people
#7 Estonia 0.107277 per 1,000 people
#8 Latvia 0.10393 per 1,000 people
#9 Lithuania 0.102863 per 1,000 people
#10 Belarus 0.0983495 per 1,000 people
#11 Ukraine 0.094006 per 1,000 people
#12 Papua New Guinea 0.0838593 per 1,000 people
#13 Kyrgyzstan 0.0802565 per 1,000 people
#14 Thailand 0.0800798 per 1,000 people
#15 Moldova 0.0781145 per 1,000 people
#16 Zimbabwe 0.0749938 per 1,000 people
#17 Seychelles 0.0739025 per 1,000 people
#18 Zambia 0.070769 per 1,000 people
#19 Costa Rica 0.061006 per 1,000 people
#20 Poland 0.0562789 per 1,000 people
#21 Georgia 0.0511011 per 1,000 people
#22 Uruguay 0.045082 per 1,000 people
#23 Bulgaria 0.0445638 per 1,000 people

How about the 2000 Un International Crime Victims survey?
People by country who reported they feel only a small risk of burgulary:
#1 Finland 84%
#2 Austria 82%
#3 Sweden 79%
#4 United States 78%
#5 Denmark 75%
#6 Norway 68%
#7 Canada 66%
#8 Switzerland 64%
#9 Netherlands 62%
#10 United Kingdom 58%
#11 Australia 57%
#12 Belgium 48%
#13 Italy 46%
#14 Germany 45%
#15 Japan 43%
#16 France 43%
#17 New Zealand 42%

Total crimes per capita:
#1 Dominica 113.822 per 1,000 people
#2 New Zealand 105.881 per 1,000 people
#3 Finland 101.526 per 1,000 people
#4 Denmark 92.8277 per 1,000 people
#5 Chile 88.226 per 1,000 people
#6 United Kingdom 85.5517 per 1,000 people
#7 Montserrat 80.3982 per 1,000 people
#8 United States 80.0645 per 1,000 people
#9 Netherlands 79.5779 per 1,000 people
#10 South Africa 77.1862 per 1,000 people
#11 Germany 75.9996 per 1,000 people
#12 Canada 75.4921 per 1,000 people
#13 Norway 71.8639 per 1,000 people
#14 France 62.1843 per 1,000 people

Lone Parent Households:
#1 Canada 11%
#2 United Kingdom 10%
#3 New Zealand 9%
#4 Finland 9%
#5 United States 9%
#6 Norway 9%
#7 Ireland 9%
#8 Korea, South 9%
#9 Australia 8%
#10 Portugal 8%
#11 Austria 8%
#12 Belgium 7%
#13 Italy 7%
#14 France 7%
#15 Switzerland 6%
#16 Denmark 6%
#17 Spain 6%
#18 Luxembourg 5%
#19 Netherlands 5%

How about a 1990 survey that asked if the people in a given country were proud of their nationality for that matter? What percentage of the US population do you think were not proud of their nationality?
Lets move forward based on the facts without jumping to conclusions.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Where are the facts and figures for that assumption? Teen Pregnancy rates and alcohol abuse rates in europe versus America. The facts are this: From 1995 to 1998 the US did lead with 52.1 per thousand women between 15 and 19 but the rest of europe was right behind us even though they have all this "education" and the like.

[Numbers deleted for briefness]

How about a 1990 survey that asked if the people in a given country were proud of their nationality for that matter? What percentage of the US population do you think were not proud of their nationality?
Lets move forward based on the facts without jumping to conclusions.

Regards to all,

J

Mostly good points. This is a complex issue.

Proud of nationality? Who cares? Patriotism is irrelevant to most issues, and particularly to a discussion of sexuality ...

bk

 

[Briscoeteque]

Various Statistics

Wait, these numbers look like they prove what he's talking about. He may have gotten the details wrong, but what he's talking about is pretty much proven.

Europe's not 'right behind' in teen pregnancy, the UK is 2/3rds of our number, and it drops steeply pretty soon afterwards.

Murder? Look at who's above us, a whole lot of Eastern Europe, a land I love dearly and wish to study in some day, but definately not an area thought of to be particularly lawful. Having slightly less crime than such a crime-ridden place doesn't say much. They've got more rights in Belarus then Saudi Arabia, and that doesn't change the fact that Belarus is an opressive dictatorship.

There's a little on both sides, but this definately is not a chart that screams to me 'Go USA! We've Less Murders then Columbia!' Teen pregency, most of the numbers on your list are a 5th of America, that's not right behind, that's a huge difference.

Based on your facts, I'd say yes, dispite Americans holding 'family values' so dear, teen pregancy is way higher here than in Europe.

 

[Mr Nick]

Personal responsibility and accountability

Why isn't anyone talking about these two topics? Sure they used to get married at 13,14, 15 etc. You know what else? They faced uo to their responsibility when parenthood was a "side effect" of sexual activity. Granted some of that responsibility was at the end of a shotgun, but society in general and individuals for the most part, faced up to the consequences of their actions and took responsibility for them. I don't have the fact in front of me but I'd guess that the changes began with the introduction of the "New Deal" and the numbers have continued to rise since the influx of "social reforms" enacted since then. Unwed mothers are more numerous because the state has taken the place of the father in providing for the household. Abortions are an issue because people don't want to face the consequences of parenthood from sexual activity. Do you think maybe putting personal accountability and responsibility bak in the forefront of American consciousness would turn the tide for reckless behavior? Wouldn't hurt a thing! See the whole question raised here is trying to shift the responsibility for sexual activity away from the people having sex! You put out there in black and white like that and it sounds pretty lame, doesn't it? :eusa_doh:

 

[Baron Kurtz]

See the whole question raised here is trying to shift the responsibility for sexual activity away from the people having sex! You put out there in black and white like that and it sounds pretty lame, doesn't it? :eusa_doh:

Now, that isn't the issue being raised at all (though they are related). The issue is not responsibility being taken after the sex has been had. The issue is whether teens should be having sex at all (at least that's where this thread started). Granted the thread has morphed slightly (with some irrelevancies bandied around here and there), but at root, it comes down to whether or not teenagers should be having sex. Responsibility and evil old Franklin Roosevelt never came into it ...

bk