Sex in media boosts teen promiscuity-study

[Pilgrim]

"All intimate sex outside of marriage is bad. I didn't make the rules; I just know what they are."

That sentence is missing two important words that should be appended at the end: ...."for me."

The corrected and accurate sentence would read:

"All intimate sex outside of marriage is bad. I didn't make the rules; I just know what they are for me".

Outside of the constraints imposed under our legal system, no person in the US is entitled to state what the rules are for any other person's behavior. We can approve or disapprove, state and argue our reasons, and much of the time the people around us will agree with us. But those are NOT "rules" that apply to others.

None of us get to set "the rules" for any person except us and our minor children, and if those rules contradict US and/or local laws, we are accountable under our legal system. We certainly have social contracts, and social mores, and common behaviors that are shared in our society. But those aren't "rules" in the formal sense. They are common behaviors and the sanctions that result from deviating from those common behaviors are social, not legal.

In short, "you're not the boss of me". (That's "you in the abstract, not you personally.) Even if I agree with your opinion, other people's rules are just that....other people's rules. They don't control my beliefs or actions.

I'm not arguing pro or con any particular set of actions - I'm standing up for my rights, and for ALL OF YOUR rights. My goal in this post is to remind us all that we tend to project our desired behaviors onto others and express those as "rules", when in fact they are not rules to the other person.

 

[Briscoeteque]

NOTHING in the bible is outdated...everything in there is really for our protection. I have known a couple of friends who waited until marriage and it was so baeutiful seeing how it was meant to be. With sex, your giving yourself away to another...again I think the risk lies more heavily for girls...what happens to the teenage girl who ends up getting pregnant and the boyfriend leaves..be a single mom? have an abortion (which brings on even more serious issues)...std's...or getting her heart crushed because the boyfriend has moved on? That is the safe guard of marriage.

You obey the 613 laws of just the old testiment alone, and not one of them is outdated? Even accepting slavery from those who have wronged you and are not able to pay? And if should said slave decide to extend his servitude past the said years, will you nail his ear to the wall before hand? You may feel that this law about fornication is not outdated, but parts of the bible are.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Just make sure you don't eat any crustaceans ...

apologies

bk

 

[John in Covina]

Sometimes rules are actually addressing age old problems.

Believe it or not I really agree with you, I am a true believer in the catagorical imperitive. I just disagree that this act in particular is catigorically bad. My rules don't come from one book; I say, why limit yourself to one? There's a lot of good stuff in the Bible, an awful lot, but some of it is outright outdated. Ever wear a blended fabric, cotton/wool, cotton/linen? That's against the law of the Bible too. I guess it could somehow hurt someone (heck, everything could hurt someone), but I love my cotton/linen pants too much to give up, and on an issue like that I can't accept 'just because' as an answer.

*******
Sometimes rules address age old problems. Do you think you relationship with a significant other ina psycological way is different than the same type of relationship of other people that existed through out the ages? OR has human nature changed? None /a little / alot.

There is a lot more to it than what you are describing, There are rules in the Old Testament that no longer apply once fulfilled or nullified by the end of the New Testament. The culture should not shape religion, but religion should try to shape the culture. Now if you want to go thru the rules from all the religions and philosiphies that has been expounded to pick and choose what's right for you like a Chinese Menu (One from column A two from Column B) then you can't be surprised that you'll eventually run into conflict with what someone else has choosen.

Now as to sex outside of marrige, let me ask you, why should society value marrige, or family or parental rights? Is there a purpose to sex? (A thrill ride only or a close intimate relationship only or you wind up producing the next generation?) If you do not realize that sexual relations is more than a fun romp, then you don't fully understand that relationships are important, and that responsibilities towards one another become involved. There is more to this life than just the obvious or the visible and when we direct our actions with out that regard, we have relationship problems.

It's like all the studies that say drive drunk and eventually somebody is gonna get hurt, smoke cigarettes and eventually it's gonna affect your health. Have sex outside of marrige and eventually it's gonna affect your life.

How much? Do you know what a Bell Curve is and where the majoity fits in? The Bell curve comes up over and over again and it predicts where the majority of people fit in for many situations. Sometimes "because" is all you need as a caution because it fits the reality of a problem. Most of the time people invent reasons so they can do what they want as oppose to what the should do. Parents say Because with out having to fill in the rest because they know better from life experience and it's not always necesary to give a long explanation.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The culture should not shape religion, but religion should try to shape the culture.

Agree to differ. My feeling is that religion has no place in society.

Now as to sex outside of marrige, let me ask you, why should society value marrige, or family or parental rights?

Questions i struggle to answer.

bk

 

[Pilgrim]

Point of clarification:

Original statement:

"The culture should not shape religion, but religion should try to shape the culture."

A statement of fact, rather than desirability:

"The culture should not shape religion, but religion WILL try to shape the culture."

All religions of which I am aware prescribe a set of behaviors for their adherents. By practicing those behaviors, the members of that religion automatically and inevitably impact the culture around them. Whether this is desirable is almost moot, because IMO it is inevitable.

It can easily be seen how conflicts arise when religions that prescribe different behaviors simultaneously TRY to shape the culture. That is a prescription for disagreement, because everyone is "Right", and they are smultaneously "Wrong" from the other point of view.

 

[Briscoeteque]

*******
Sometimes rules address age old problems. Do you think you relationship with a significant other ina psycological way is different than the same type of relationship of other people that existed through out the ages? OR has human nature changed? None /a little / alot.

There is a lot more to it than what you are describing, There are rules in the Old Testament that no longer apply once fulfilled or nullified by the end of the New Testament. The culture should not shape religion, but religion should try to shape the culture. Now if you want to go thru the rules from all the religions and philosiphies that has been expounded to pick and choose what's right for you like a Chinese Menu (One from column A two from Column B) then you can't be surprised that you'll eventually run into conflict with what someone else has choosen.

Now as to sex outside of marrige, let me ask you, why should society value marrige, or family or parental rights? Is there a purpose to sex? (A thrill ride only or a close intimate relationship only or you wind up producing the next generation?) If you do not realize that sexual relations is more than a fun romp, then you don't fully understand that relationships are important, and that responsibilities towards one another become involved. There is more to this life than just the obvious or the visible and when we direct our actions with out that regard, we have relationship problems.

It's like all the studies that say drive drunk and eventually somebody is gonna get hurt, smoke cigarettes and eventually it's gonna affect your health. Have sex outside of marrige and eventually it's gonna affect your life.

How much? Do you know what a Bell Curve is and where the majoity fits in? The Bell curve comes up over and over again and it predicts where the majority of people fit in for many situations. Sometimes "because" is all you need as a caution because it fits the reality of a problem. Most of the time people invent reasons so they can do what they want as oppose to what the should do. Parents say Because with out having to fill in the rest because they know better from life experience and it's not always necesary to give a long explanation.

I'm not going to change your puritanical ways, and you're not going to change my playboy lifestyle. I could tell you that yes, I smoke cigarettes, and I think I'll be fine, because it takes me six months to get through a single pack. My body's resilient. I watch myself, and do things in moderation, because you have a better time when you don't loose a bunch of money or get addicted to something.

No, the 'because' attitude is patronizing in the extreame, and I take it as a slap in the face. I could come to different conclucions, and I have the right as a person to come to different conclusions, and I demand access to the facts used to make an informed decision. Parents who don't fill in the rest are lazy cowards, and I am not afraid to assert that. Age alone does not wisdom make, it's a big part, and I respect my elders very much, but they are not infalliable and I demand to see where they are coming from first. Every time my father would exert his natural dominion over me, he explained it to me in detail and I had plenty of oppurtunities to advocate for myself. Most of the time he was right and I knew it, but I would be lying if I didn't prove my side more than once.

I am secure in my lifestyle, and I enjoy defending it on occasion, because it helps me conceptualize it better. For now, I'm through, but I leave you with a poem, by Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (he's old and had lots of life experience).

The Erlking
Who's riding so late through th' endless wild?
The father 't is with his infant child;
He thinks the boy 's well off in his arm,
He grasps him tightly, he keeps him warm.

My son, say why are you hiding your face ?
Oh father, the Erlking 's coming apace,
The Erlking 's here with his train and crown!
My son, the fog moves up and down. -

Be good, my child, come, go with me!
I know nice games, will play them with thee,
And flowers thou 'It find near by where
I live, pretty dress my mother will give."

Dear father, oh father, and do you not hear
What th' Erlking whispers so close to my ear?
Be quiet, do be quiet, my son,
Through leaves the wind is rustling anon.

Do come, my darling, oh come with me!
Good care my daughters will take of thee,
My daughters will dance about thee in a ring,
Will rock thee to sleep and will prettily sing."

Dear father, oh father, and do you not see
The Erlking's daughters so near to me?
My son, my son, no one 's in our way,
The willows are looking unusually gray.

I love thee, thy beauty I covet and choose,
Be willing, my darling, or force I shall use!
"Dear father, oh father, he seizes my arm!
The Erlking, father, has done me harm.

The father shudders, he darts through the wild;
With agony fill him the groans of his child.
He reached his farm with fear and dread;
The infant son in his arms was dead.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

*Raises hand sheepishly*

I have chosen not to drink until I am twenty-one and to do so in as responsible a matter as I can.
L_H

But Lena, my actual question was, do you choose not to drink specifically because the law tells you that underage drinking is prohibited? You didn't answer that question.

 

[Section10]

My goodness. So much going on.
Maybe I can catch up a little.

The principles of the Bible are not outdated, but some of the old regulations are. What the Baron quoted is part of the old Mosaic covenant which has in a sense expired (or been superceded). You can still apply it to your life if you like, but you don't have to. I don't because it would only result in my condemnation.

As far as applying my set of 'rules' to everyone, of course I can. Now, I cannot enforce them, but if I believe them to be universal, why shouldn't I? In fact, I'm being amiss if I don't. Isn't that what's being done to me right now? You say it is wrong for me to impose my values on others, yet by telling me that you are doing that very thing. Come now, we can do better than that, can't we?
Part of the problem might be with the use of the word 'rules'. In a sense they are just that, but they can also be viewed in a certain context more as guidelines or warnings. The Baron threw out a question and I was nervy enough to answer him. If you ask me if the ice is thin and I say: 'Yes, don't go out there'. I'm not restricting your freedom. I'm warning you of danger. You don't have to listen to me and I'm not going to tackle you and force you to stay on solid ground, but at least I've warned you. I messed up 10 years of my life for the sake of my freedom to have fun. I've sat many nights in juvenile detention at the sheriff's office with teen agers who had been expressing their freedoms. They didn't appear to be having much fun to me.

In a way you could say these standards are not mine at all. They are independent of me and all I have done is see that they are universal and have tried to incorporate them into my life and behavior. They work. I've been on both sides of the fence in this issue and I know which is the right side to be on. There is little you can tell me.
All who read this can never say anymore: 'It's not my fault. No one cared enough to warn me'.
John the Baptist was the greatest prophet in the history of the world and all he ever was was a voice crying in the wilderness. I can do no better.

 

[Katt in Hat]

There are 6+ Billion people on this earth.

They profess to about 10 different Major Faiths and many Minor, only in the numerical sense, Faiths, or even (gasp) to none at all...

We're having a great deal of trouble with a small part of a large group. This splinter wants all 6 Billion of us to believe, worship and think their way. Other fundamentalists seek the same end; perhaps not by the same means but they too have seen the true light.

God has not renounced his Covenant with his People but, and here may be a nasty surprise to some; His People may be ALL HUMANITY... :arated:

 

[Pilgrim]

I am in mind of a neat quotation from R. A. Heinlein's classic novel Strange in a Strange Land, winner of the 1962 Hugo Award as the best novel in science fiction.

One of the main characters, Jubal Harshaw, commented (this is a paraphrase, because I haven't read it in some years) ...when the big bell rings, we may find out that Mumbo Jumbo, the God of the Congo, was the big boss all along...

But Harshaw commented that he found the Catholic ceremonies appropriate and comforting, so he observed them.

I've never forgotten that. Lots of people are sure they're right, but all the other people are sure all the groups they don't belong to are wrong. I personally don't find it worth fighting about, but it sure has caused a lot of wars.

Me, I go with the belief set that seems most appropriate, functional and humane to me. And one of these days I suppose I'll get to go behind the curtain and find out which "Mumbo Jumbo" is the real one. I'm not worried about it.

 

[Lena_Horne]

But Lena, my actual question was, do you choose not to drink specifically because the law tells you that underage drinking is prohibited? You didn't answer that question.

Oops, then yes. I believe (personally) skirting the law when I have no real excuse to do so is falling into a very unnecessary trap. Couple that with everything I said before and I'm alright.

L_H

 

[jamespowers]

Agree to differ. My feeling is that religion has no place in society.

Are you quoting Stalin or is that really your belief?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Oops, then yes. I believe (personally) skirting the law when I have no real excuse to do so is falling into a very unnecessary trap. Couple that with everything I said before and I'm alright.

L_H

Understood! Thanks a lot, Lena. I agree with you on your other points!

 

[jamespowers]

Understood! Thanks a lot, Lena. I agree with you on your other points!

And Lena is right again! lol

Regards,

J

 

[Katt in Hat]

I would not have expected such a snide comment...

from a Bartender and a Gentleman.

Say it ain't so...Or have I missed the humour?

Are you quoting Stalin or is that really your belief?

 

[Bebop]

Agree to differ. My feeling is that religion has no place in society.



Questions i struggle to answer.

bk

Unfortunatly, religion does have a place in society. It shouldn't but it does. At least in the U.S.A. it does. You will never see a President elected that has no charlatan religious beliefs here. You have to believe in some religion. You can worship grasshoppers or belly button lint if you wish in order to be taken seriously in the U.S.

 

[jamespowers]

from a Bartender and a Gentleman.

Say it ain't so...Or have I missed the humour?

Actually Stalin did say that. I was just wondering if he was being serious or facetious.
Do we really want a society free of religion? How would you enforce it and what would you do to those who broke the ban? That just gets too close to rounding people up and putting them in camps. I don't want to ever see that again.
Let people believe whatever they want but don't prevent them from believing anything. In Stalinist Russia, they would brainwash children by placing two potted plants side by side. They would tell the children that there is no God and they could prove it. From then on they watered one plant and left the other plant alone. You guessed it, the plant not watered died. They then proclaimed that there was no God and that the government was that which gives one nourishment just as the teacher watered the plant. I don't want to see this junk in our schools here either.
Freedom of religion is fine but freedom from religion is ridiculous. There is no such guarantee. No one forces you to join any particular religion but you just might see a church with a cross on it.

Regards,

J

 

[Mike K.]

Stalin - wasn't he the guy who invented the concept of "politically correct"??

This thread sure veered off the original topic of teen sex.

 

[Katt in Hat]

This just in>>>Electricity leads people to stay up after Sundown!!!

Stalin - wasn't he the guy who invented the concept of "politically correct"??

This thread sure veered off the original topic of teen sex.

Then, you can add something of value to the thread if you like.