Schott 618 or Vanson C2 - Looking for advise

[GauchoGermanico]

Good Morning !

Been reading & perusing quietly in the background, since my research and ultimate purchase of my Schott 618HH almost three years ago (…wow…) on November 28, 2023 (pic below). Three years later, I’m considering a Vanson C-2 or Thurnderbird….not because I don’t love the horsehide in my Schott, but because I’m now looking for something that not only comes close to the elusive Hero Cut of the Durable, but will also protect me as much as possible when riding - if (God forbid) things go south or sideways. Hence I’m re-focused on the Vanson.

Just for public consumption & comparison, I’m sharing my research & journey here, hoping it informs & helps

First, the “Gold Standard” or “North Star” of The Durable, in size 40, credit to dmoser1978 who has this jacket in his collection:

Durable 40:
P2P: 21"
Waist: 18"
Back Length: 22"
Sleeve shoulder seam to end: 23"
Middle collar to sleeve end: 34"
Shoulder: 21”
Taper: 3"


SCHOTT N.Y.C. - 618HH: Horsehide Perfecto® - 46
I had to size up dramatically for this jacket, due to the "restrictive shoulders & chest” as Tom71 cited. Same experience with my body, but “your mileage may vary." Also, I’m personally still trying to come as close as possible to the “Holy Grail Hero Cut” look of The Durable, and I wanted enough room in the chest to allow for my thickest hoodie. As a result, I’ve got enough room in the waist of this jacket that I’ve considered having it professionally tailored/tapered.

P2P: 24.25”
Waist: 22”
Back Length: 25”
Sleeve shoulder seam to end: 26”
Middle collar to sleeve end: 36”
Shoulder: 19.5”
Taper: 2.25”

Of all the jackets hagning in my collection (both riding gear and not), my personal “North Star” whose proportions come as close as possible to the Durable and which I enjoy wearing the most:

P2P: 24.25”
Waist: 21”
Back Length: 24.5”
Sleeve shoulder seam to end: 25”
Middle collar to sleeve end: 35”
Shoulder: 20.5”
Taper: 3.25"


As I understand it, the specs on the Vanson C-2 or Thunderbird in a 42 are:
P2P: 23.5”
Waist: 21”
Back Length: 24.5”
Sleeve shoulder seam to end: n/a
Middle collar to sleeve end: 35”
Shoulder: n/a
Taper: 2.5”


Unlike some other posters, who may have different proportions: I’ve always preferred the shorter center back length & shorter (resaonable) sleeves on a motorcycle jacket, especially since both of my bikes are cruisers.
Hoping that the Vanson be the instersection of “Durable Hero Cut + High Quality American Made Leather + Certified PPE C-2 Riding Gear”

That being said, I am concerned about the “hides” comment above, if anyone can elaborate/embellish more. I know from my initial research that a few years ago Vanson faced challenges getting American hides, and as of this writing, their website currently cites: “Each Vanson is designed, engineered, cut and hand made in the U.S.A. of imported and domestic materials."

After speaking to a few local veteran Vanson retailers, I’m planning on a road trip to Vanson in the next few weeks to have them measure & fit me, giving consideration to the body armor, which they are more than happy to install, but treat as a “Custom” order.
If that’s the case, without seeing them in person yet, I’m envisioning my custom to be an armored Thunderbird with the Brass Hardware of the C-2

The journey continues….

View attachment 816761

I hope you find your holy grail of Jackets! Share your experience once you get to visit Vanson!

In regards to the meassurements of your Schott, the shoulder width you shared is the cross shoulder right? It's adevertised on Schott's page as 20.5''. Is it really one inch shorter in reality? It's quite a big difference!

 

[Tom71]

Both look great! Del's one looks quite good indeed, but the price might be too high for me considering the importation.

Could I kindly ask you about the cross shoulder meassurment of your size 44 Schott? I've been comparing the meassurements of a Jacket I have, which fits quite well and it is smaller by a bit in every part when compared to the size 44 that Schott has on their web. So I think that maybe I'm closer to a 44 than a 46. Problem is that my jacket has exactly the same cross shoulder width as Schott's one, but if by any reasson Schott's real cross shoulder size is shorter... then the jacket could not fit me (depending how off the meassurement of the website is).

I have posted detalied info including measurements in the following thread

Comparison: Schott 618HH vs. 613SH

I decided to make a designated comparison-thread instead of including lenghty remarks in one of the two "jacket-related" threads in existence. Hope it helps for future referencing. After some extended lusting, I ordered a 613SH in May 2023. @Aloysius put the jacket on my radar with hith very...

www.thefedoralounge.com

I will re-measure later today an post a picture for you to see how I do it.

 

[RJD257]

I hope you find your holy grail of Jackets! Share your experience once you get to visit Vanson!

In regards to the meassurements of your Schott, the shoulder width you shared is the cross shoulder right? It's adevertised on Schott's page as 20.5''. Is it really one inch shorter in reality? It's quite a big difference!

Just remeasured my SCHOTT N.Y.C. - 618HH: Horsehide Perfecto® - 46 this morning, and the tape tells the tale.
19.5" from end of epaulet to end of epaulet. (see pic below)

Over the past few years, I've lost track of how many jackets, jeans, etc that I've tried on, and two garments that are labelled as the same size, from the same manufacturer can feel entirely different on your body as the result of "acceptable tolerances." I literally have two of the same jacket model, same pattern, same manufacturer same size, different colors - one fits me ""snug" the other feels "blousy" or "drapey."

My gorgeous goddess of a girlfriend, who used to work for a couture designer has said for years that "you just have to try it on, and if you find something that fits your body perfectly - that's the one you walk out with."

And again - if we're judging jackets by The Durable as "The North Star" or "Gold Standard" - the Schott (...even in their size 46...) comes in an inch and a half shy of the Durable's Hero Cut in their size 40.... But it's not all in the wide shoulders, it's also in the length of the torso, and the taper from P2P down to waist. And of course your unique body...

Promise I'll share the road trip here in this thread, for those who may be even further away then I am from Vanson's HQ.

And enjoy your own personal journey / adventure of trying on all those jackets until you find YOUR "Holy Grail" !

View attachment IMG_2289.jpeg

 

[Tom71]

I have posted detalied info including measurements in the following thread

http://[URL]https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/comparison-schott-618hh-vs-613sh.120913/

[/URL]

I will re-measure later today an post a picture for you to see how I do it.

Re-measured and confirm that shoulder is 18,7”-18,9” depending on stretch I apply.

 

[2-or-more]

Good Morning !

Been reading & perusing quietly in the background, since my research and ultimate purchase of my Schott 618HH almost three years ago (…wow…) on November 28, 2023 (pic below). Three years later, I’m considering a Vanson C-2 or Thurnderbird….not because I don’t love the horsehide in my Schott, but because I’m now looking for something that not only comes close to the elusive Hero Cut of the Durable, but will also protect me as much as possible when riding - if (God forbid) things go south or sideways. Hence I’m re-focused on the Vanson.

Just for public consumption & comparison, I’m sharing my research & journey here, hoping it informs & helps

First, the “Gold Standard” or “North Star” of The Durable, in size 40, credit to dmoser1978 who has this jacket in his collection:

Durable 40:
P2P: 21"
Waist: 18"
Back Length: 22"
Sleeve shoulder seam to end: 23"
Middle collar to sleeve end: 34"
Shoulder: 21”
Taper: 3"


SCHOTT N.Y.C. - 618HH: Horsehide Perfecto® - 46
I had to size up dramatically for this jacket, due to the "restrictive shoulders & chest” as Tom71 cited. Same experience with my body, but “your mileage may vary." Also, I’m personally still trying to come as close as possible to the “Holy Grail Hero Cut” look of The Durable, and I wanted enough room in the chest to allow for my thickest hoodie. As a result, I’ve got enough room in the waist of this jacket that I’ve considered having it professionally tailored/tapered.

P2P: 24.25”
Waist: 22”
Back Length: 25”
Sleeve shoulder seam to end: 26”
Middle collar to sleeve end: 36”
Shoulder: 19.5”
Taper: 2.25”

Of all the jackets hagning in my collection (both riding gear and not), my personal “North Star” whose proportions come as close as possible to the Durable and which I enjoy wearing the most:

P2P: 24.25”
Waist: 21”
Back Length: 24.5”
Sleeve shoulder seam to end: 25”
Middle collar to sleeve end: 35”
Shoulder: 20.5”
Taper: 3.25"


As I understand it, the specs on the Vanson C-2 or Thunderbird in a 42 are:
P2P: 23.5”
Waist: 21”
Back Length: 24.5”
Sleeve shoulder seam to end: n/a
Middle collar to sleeve end: 35”
Shoulder: n/a
Taper: 2.5”


Unlike some other posters, who may have different proportions: I’ve always preferred the shorter center back length & shorter (resaonable) sleeves on a motorcycle jacket, especially since both of my bikes are cruisers.
Hoping that the Vanson be the instersection of “Durable Hero Cut + High Quality American Made Leather + Certified PPE C-2 Riding Gear”

That being said, I am concerned about the “hides” comment above, if anyone can elaborate/embellish more. I know from my initial research that a few years ago Vanson faced challenges getting American hides, and as of this writing, their website currently cites: “Each Vanson is designed, engineered, cut and hand made in the U.S.A. of imported and domestic materials."

After speaking to a few local veteran Vanson retailers, I’m planning on a road trip to Vanson in the next few weeks to have them measure & fit me, giving consideration to the body armor, which they are more than happy to install, but treat as a “Custom” order.
If that’s the case, without seeing them in person yet, I’m envisioning my custom to be an armored Thunderbird with the Brass Hardware of the C-2

The journey continues….

View attachment 816761

Just wanted to let you know that Thunderbird fits almost one size larger than C2! But you have a chance to try on which is golden.

 

[RJD257]

Just wanted to let you know that Thunderbird fits almost one size larger than C2! But you have a chance to try on which is golden.

WOW - that little nuance is pure gold ! Thanks for sharing your wisdom from your journey! And yes, it makes the road trip in a few weeks to their HQ even more compelling !

Thx Again!
R

 

[GauchoGermanico]

Thanks everybody for the feedback!

So far I have decided that I won't go for Schott or Vanson. The reassons are the following:

Schott:
I've contacted their customer support to ask for the exact meassurements of the 618 in size 44 as I have compared said size with one of my jackets and seems to be the closest one. However, the sleeve length on their website is 35.5'' which seems wrong as it would be extraordinary long.
Jerri from the customer support told me the sleeves are 25.63'' long (which prooves that the website is wrong). Unfortunately, this is too short for me and picking up a bigger size would end up being an oversize everywhere except sleeves. The only model that could fit me is the 118L, but it comes with a longer back, which I don't like. I also wanted a steerhide or horsehide jacket.
Therefore, it's too risky to buy a Schott jacket for me while knowing that the meassurements don't fit me (at least for what it's advertised).

Small other comment on Schott. I found their customer support to be not that good or at least they don't seem to be very polite. I have written them a formal email, which in return they answered in a "chat" way, like if every word they added costed them money. I asked them for advice and they didn't provide any, not even the right meassures.
For example, they told me the sleeve lenght is 25,63'' from cuff to seem. As a follow up, I asked them the meassure from cuff to neck since I figured out that if the shoulder seem falls a little bit down on the arm, then the sleeve could fit me as the missing inches could be compensated by the sleeve starting lower. To that, they replied "The 618 size 44 is 25.63". It's exactly the same answer as before!!! They are not even reading what I'm asking them.

I would think that the customer support of a store such as Schott would at least be polite and write well, but they aren't!

Vanson:
Not a lot of information. I've sent them an email asking for the meassurements and they never replied. I understand that the email could have landed on Spam. I could call them and do a follow up, but I think I found an alternative...

The alternative:
While doing my research on the different leather jacket brands I remember reading about Aero Leathers. At the time, I thought that the prices were to high as there's a 33% difference between the dolar and the pound. However, what I didn't know, is that Aero makes a Jacket with your meassurements.
As I'm in Argentina and changing the Jacket would be near impossible (if not totally impossible), I think that since I'm buying a premium quality jacket, I could pay a little more and be sure that the jacket will fit me.
For what i've read, Aero makes great jackets and even let's you customize it. The materials seem to be even higher quality than Schotts, as the standard leather of most jackets is Horween CLX and the lining full cotton drill or wool tartan (where in Schott's is Nylon).
I'm currently awaiting their reply on how the shipping to Argentina would be and it's cost. In the meantime, I'm deciding about the Jacket model. Currently between the Indian Rebel, the Motorcycle Jacket or the Bootlegger.

Any advice/opinion/ feedback is more than welcome!

 

[RJD257]

Just wanted to let you know that Thunderbird fits almost one size larger than C2! But you have a chance to try on which is golden.

Good Evening ! Three Weeks Later, and freshly returned from Vanson's HQ in Fall River MA

To cut to the chase - @2-or-more was spot on. The Thunderbird fits EXACTLY one size larger than the C2. While wearing an under-layer, I measured a 44 in the C2, and a 42 in the Thunderbird. There were other functional differences, such as the diameter of the upper arms, location of the sleeve zips, etc - and aesthetic differences such as the color of the hardware, removable full belt (C2) vs permanently attached half-belt (Thunderbird) and a center seam back (C2) vs solid panel back (Thunderbird)

Just as the 618HH and the C2 are different jackets, for different purposes, and cannot be directly compared; the customer experience on-site is different between the two companies. While Schott has 3 or so major retail stores across the country, and their factory mere minutes away from me in NNJ; Vanson has a retail space on-site in the same building that houses their factory. This post focuses on Vanson.

I spent a few hours on-site as a first time visitor. Received great customer service from Aliza; who patiently invested significant time & energy for literally hours, listened attentively, understood my outcome, my purpose and based on her experience, directed me to the appropriate sizes in both the C2 and the Thunderbird. Shared stories about their history, working relationships with partners like “Duds By Dell,” and others. She then directed me to Kim, who lives up to her reputation for taking precise measurements, and explained which body armor might work best based on how I would be riding, and the pattern of these particular jackets.

Their Customer Profile Form asks if you're a bodybuilder, what type of belly (if any) you have, and which of the 12 different riding positions you use. I was measured at 18 different points (...and there are more on the form...) and we explored which path best suits my needs: an "off the rack" pattern with slight modifications for armor attachments, sleeve length, torso taper - or a fully custom piece from scratch. There are still a few more questions, distinctions and nuances that I need to iron out but I look forward to continuing my dialogue with them.

If you are in the area, or traveling to the area - they will welcome you graciously into their professional home. For those who can’t, I’m attaching a few pix here….including me in a C2, size 42 - followed by a Thunderbird size 40

 

[onstar]

Good Evening ! Three Weeks Later, and freshly returned from Vanson's HQ in Fall River MA

To cut to the chase - @2-or-more was spot on. The Thunderbird fits EXACTLY one size larger than the C2. While wearing an under-layer, I measured a 44 in the C2, and a 42 in the Thunderbird. There were other functional differences, such as the diameter of the upper arms, location of the sleeve zips, etc - and aesthetic differences such as the color of the hardware, removable full belt (C2) vs permanently attached half-belt (Thunderbird) and a center seam back (C2) vs solid panel back (Thunderbird)

Just as the 618HH and the C2 are different jackets, for different purposes, and cannot be directly compared; the customer experience on-site is different between the two companies. While Schott has 3 or so major retail stores across the country, and their factory mere minutes away from me in NNJ; Vanson has a retail space on-site in the same building that houses their factory. This post focuses on Vanson.

I spent a few hours on-site as a first time visitor. Received great customer service from Aliza; who patiently invested significant time & energy for literally hours, listened attentively, understood my outcome, my purpose and based on her experience, directed me to the appropriate sizes in both the C2 and the Thunderbird. Shared stories about their history, working relationships with partners like “Duds By Dell,” and others. She then directed me to Kim, who lives up to her reputation for taking precise measurements, and explained which body armor might work best based on how I would be riding, and the pattern of these particular jackets.

Their Customer Profile Form asks if you're a bodybuilder, what type of belly (if any) you have, and which of the 12 different riding positions you use. I was measured at 18 different points (...and there are more on the form...) and we explored which path best suits my needs: an "off the rack" pattern with slight modifications for armor attachments, sleeve length, torso taper - or a fully custom piece from scratch. There are still a few more questions, distinctions and nuances that I need to iron out but I look forward to continuing my dialogue with them.

If you are in the area, or traveling to the area - they will welcome you graciously into their professional home. For those who can’t, I’m attaching a few pix here….including me in a C2, size 42 - followed by a Thunderbird size 40
View attachment 823076 View attachment 823077 View attachment 823078 View attachment 823079 View attachment 823080 View attachment 823081 View attachment 823082 View attachment 823083 View attachment 823084

Did you special order anything? I made the trek to Fall River once. 4 hour drive from NYC and selection was very slim. Thinking about doing a coustom order.

 

[RJD257]

Did you special order anything? I made the trek to Fall River once. 4 hour drive from NYC and selection was very slim. Im thinking about doing a custom order.

IMHO, it's worth the trip, and I may be going back in a few weeks to "seal the deal." But it was 4 hours for me as well, since I'm in NNJ. Word of advice ? Next Time, I'm arriving the day or night before, checking into a reasonably priced hotel, getting a good nights sleep, breakfast, and then visiting them rested & recharged, and then seeing some of the historical sites I didn't have time for on this trip. Make it an adventure!

 

[Eagledog]

Did you special order anything? I made the trek to Fall River once. 4 hour drive from NYC and selection was very slim. Thinking about doing a coustom order.

The Vanson website says" Over 4000 new and used jackets in stock"!!!
That doesn't sound like a very slim selection to me.

 

[RJD257]

The Vanson website says" Over 4000 new and used jackets in stock"!!!
That doesn't sound like a very slim selection to me.

The place is HUGE ! It is the "ground level" of their factory building, with manufacturing upstairs.

It has areas that wrap around and there is one section dedicated to used jackets - not just Vanson's but you'll find other brands there as well. Now, it's a question of what you personally are looking for... I went in with a very focused task & purpose, after doing some "pre-research," so out of all that - my time was spent in one section of the retail space, focused on only two different sizes of two different model jackets.
If I had not narrowed it down before then, I'm sure I could have spent even more time trying on multiple jackets