RMC J100 vs TMC Beck666, first leather jacket

[Technika2]

Hello guys, I've been a long-time visitor, but never made a count or a post. I'm about to purchase my first horsehide jacket and would like to hear your suggestions.

I'm debating between the Real Mccoy J100 or Toys Mccoy Beck 666. They offer a similar style but just a different cut. Here are some of my numbers:

178cm tall (5'10)
80kg (175 lbs)
Chest is 103cm (41 inch)
Shoulder width is 50cm (20 inch)

I currently own an RRL Slim Fit Moto Jacket in a size large; i can layer a hoodie under that comfortably. I live in Chicago, so I cant go to a store to try those jackets on, I have to order it from Asia and have it shipped, so the sizing is important.

The seller recommended that I go with a 42 on J100, and a 44 if I go with Beck 666. I'm leaning towards a Beck 666 since it has a tapered waist, because I have border shoulders and chest, but slimmer waist.

What do you guys think? I know people prefer a slimmer look when wearing a horsehide jacket, so I guess a 42 in beck 666 would be better?

 

[Canuck Panda]

Your seller is correct on the sizing. If you go with the current RMC J100, you go with size 42. If you go with TMC 666, you go with size 44.

I have a similar build to you but with narrower shoulders, and below is how the two different fits fits on me in different tag sizes. I know they're different designs, but all Mccoys, Pre 2000s Mccoys to Toys Mccoy to Current Osaka Mccoy. There are only two fits, one with waist suppression and one without. Throughout the years they tweak the tag size up and down within the two different fits and confuse everyone so people buy more...

The waist supression fit is ) ( shaped, great for guys with slim waistline, the narrowest part of the jacket is right in the middle torso where the belly button is.

The slim straight fit is \ / shaped, I consider this type of fit as the mass fashion fit, it will fit the most different types of bodies, but will flatter very few imo.

There is an exemptions like the current Mobster, sort of, trick question, which is the slim straight fit kind, no waist suppression, but it has a curve to the hem so straight across it is 21", but if measured along the curve it is 44" around so still 23" P2P down to 22" hem in my book.

The brown jacket in the middle is the same as the Beck 666 you're looking at, it just has different pocket set up for the Issey Miyake Collab, but same triple stitching throughout and that wrap over band collar. It is the fancier jacket compared to the plain jane J100 imo. But I do favor the Osaka Mccoys Shinki more because it has a hand waxed top coat whereas non of my TMC jackets has that, and the hand waxed top coat makes the whole look more vintage vibe for me. But Tokyo TMC jackets has nicer stitching than the Osaka Mccoy imo, generally speaking.

Are you ordering from Super XY or Lost in time?

 

[Guppy]

Hello guys, I've been a long-time visitor, but never made a count or a post. I'm about to purchase my first horsehide jacket and would like to hear your suggestions.

I'm debating between the Real Mccoy J100 or Toys Mccoy Beck 666. They offer a similar style but just a different cut. Here are some of my numbers:

178cm tall (5'10)
80kg (175 lbs)
Chest is 103cm (41 inch)
Shoulder width is 50cm (20 inch)

I currently own an RRL Slim Fit Moto Jacket in a size large; i can layer a hoodie under that comfortably. I live in Chicago, so I cant go to a store to try those jackets on, I have to order it from Asia and have it shipped, so the sizing is important.

The seller recommended that I go with a 42 on J100, and a 44 if I go with Beck 666. I'm leaning towards a Beck 666 since it has a tapered waist, because I have border shoulders and chest, but slimmer waist.

What do you guys think? I know people prefer a slimmer look when wearing a horsehide jacket, so I guess a 42 in beck 666 would be better?

I love the look of the Beck 666. I think it's shoulder gussets are an advantage over the J100. If you buy a size 44 and don't like it for some reason, I'll buy it from you.

 

[Technika2]

Your seller is correct on the sizing. If you go with the current RMC J100, you go with size 42. If you go with TMC 666, you go with size 44.

I have a similar build to you but with narrower shoulders, and below is how the two different fits fits on me in different tag sizes. I know they're different designs, but all Mccoys, Pre 2000s Mccoys to Toys Mccoy to Current Osaka Mccoy. There are only two fits, one with waist suppression and one without. Throughout the years they tweak the tag size up and down within the two different fits and confuse everyone so people buy more...

The waist supression fit is ) ( shaped, great for guys with slim waistline, the narrowest part of the jacket is right in the middle torso where the belly button is.

The slim straight fit is \ / shaped, I consider this type of fit as the mass fashion fit, it will fit the most different types of bodies, but will flatter very few imo.

View attachment 676997

There is an exemptions like the current Mobster, sort of, trick question, which is the slim straight fit kind, no waist suppression, but it has a curve to the hem so straight across it is 21", but if measured along the curve it is 44" around so still 23" P2P down to 22" hem in my book.

The brown jacket in the middle is the same as the Beck 666 you're looking at, it just has different pocket set up for the Issey Miyake Collab, but same triple stitching throughout and that wrap over band collar. It is the fancier jacket compared to the plain jane J100 imo. But I do favor the Osaka Mccoys Shinki more because it has a hand waxed top coat whereas non of my TMC jackets has that, and the hand waxed top coat makes the whole look more vintage vibe for me. But Tokyo TMC jackets has nicer stitching than the Osaka Mccoy imo, generally speaking.

Are you ordering from Super XY or Lost in time?

Thank you SOOOO MUCH!! This is really helpful. And yes, I'm ordering from SuperXY in China, I have a shipping partner there who can send this to the US for me.

According to SuperXY, those are the measurements for the 42 and 44 Beck666, (I will use CM so it's easier to compare)
Size 42
Chest: 110-112
Shoulder: 48
Length: 66
Sleeve: 66

Size 44
Chest: 114-116
Shoulder: 50
Length: 68
Sleeve: 67

I currently own the RRL Slim Fit Moto Jacket (the venom jacket), I have in a size large, and it fits pretty well. Although in this case, I like wearing a hoodie and t-shirt underneath to get an relax and casual look. Here are two pictures showing how it looks with a hoodie and a tshirt vs just a t-shirt

I took some measurements on the RRL jacket, here are the numbers:
Chest: 114
Shoulder: 50
Length: 68
Sleeve: 64

As you can see, the Beck 666 in size 44 is pretty much identical to the RRL jacket I have. I think since the RRL is a cowhide, it is more stretch than a horsehide jacket. So I want to wear the Beck 666 with a slimmer look.

In this case, should I still go with the 44?

 

[Technika2]

I love the look of the Beck 666. I think it's shoulder gussets are an advantage over the J100. If you buy a size 44 and don't like it for some reason, I'll buy it from you.

Nice haha, I'm buying it from Asia, so it's around 1900USD which is not bad

 

[Technika2]

@Canuck Panda

Another thing is that the 44 has a 67cm sleeve length, which is 3cm longer than my RRL. It shouldn't be an issue after breaking in, but it could look long at the start.

I want to consider the stiffness of a horsehide jacket, so I want to make sure it wont be too tight around the chest

 

[Canuck Panda]

I think (current) size 44 is a safer bet...

This is really hard because they tweak the size tags up and down, and the sleeve measurements can sometimes be along the curve instead of straight down.

FWIW, my Toys jacket with 20" waist suppression (current size 44) only has 25.25" sleeve straight down. And the jacket with 19" waist suppression (current size 42) has 24.5" straight down, so the sellers measurements could be along the curve.

It would be nice to see a tape to the jacket measurements if they can do that, like these,

Current Size 42 Tag,

Current Size 44 Tag (but this was once size 42 tag for TMC, very confusing I know, these guys don't make it easy at all...)

I think with the waist suppression fits it is critical to see what the smallest width is and in this case is the waist in the middle.

The Real Mccoys measures their sleeves along the curve so it's always an inch shorter than expected. And it seems like Toys is the same.

If you can PM the seller to send tape to the jacket measurements that's the best, then compare to your RRL jacket. In doubt I think size 44 (also sellers suggestion) is probably the safest bet.

 

[Technika2]

I think (current) size 44 is a safer bet...

This is really hard because they tweak the size tags up and down, and the sleeve measurements can sometimes be along the curve instead of straight down.

FWIW, my Toys jacket with 20" waist suppression (current size 44) only has 25.25" sleeve straight down. And the jacket with 19" waist suppression (current size 42) has 24.5" straight down, so the sellers measurements could be along the curve.

It would be nice to see a tape to the jacket measurements if they can do that, like these,

Current Size 42 Tag,
View attachment 677027
View attachment 677028
View attachment 677032

Current Size 44 Tag (but this was once size 42 tag for TMC, very confusing I know, these guys don't make it easy at all...)
View attachment 677033
View attachment 677034
View attachment 677035

I think with the waist suppression fits it is critical to see what the smallest width is and in this case is the waist in the middle.

The Real Mccoys measures their sleeves along the curve so it's always an inch shorter than expected. And it seems like Toys is the same.

If you can PM the seller to send tape to the jacket measurements that's the best, then compare to your RRL jacket. In doubt I think size 44 (also sellers suggestion) is probably the safest bet.

Thanks again, this is very helpful! I PM'ed the seller, so hopefully they can get the measurements to me when they open in the morning. Will come back to update you once I get the numbers..

Thanks again for your help!

 

[Technika2]

I think (current) size 44 is a safer bet...

This is really hard because they tweak the size tags up and down, and the sleeve measurements can sometimes be along the curve instead of straight down.

FWIW, my Toys jacket with 20" waist suppression (current size 44) only has 25.25" sleeve straight down. And the jacket with 19" waist suppression (current size 42) has 24.5" straight down, so the sellers measurements could be along the curve.

It would be nice to see a tape to the jacket measurements if they can do that, like these,

Current Size 42 Tag,
View attachment 677027
View attachment 677028
View attachment 677032

Current Size 44 Tag (but this was once size 42 tag for TMC, very confusing I know, these guys don't make it easy at all...)
View attachment 677033
View attachment 677034
View attachment 677035

I think with the waist suppression fits it is critical to see what the smallest width is and in this case is the waist in the middle.

The Real Mccoys measures their sleeves along the curve so it's always an inch shorter than expected. And it seems like Toys is the same.

If you can PM the seller to send tape to the jacket measurements that's the best, then compare to your RRL jacket. In doubt I think size 44 (also sellers suggestion) is probably the safest bet.

Found more numbers on SuperXY measurements. They have front/back length for the 42/44 on their website

42
Front: 26 inch
Back: 24 3/4 inch

44
Front: 26 3/4 inch
Back: 25 1/2 inch

So if i measured the sleeve length of my RRL the same you did in the photo, it would be 25 1/2 inch, which is spot on for the size 44 in your photo. In this case, i think 44 would be a better choice since I do like the sleeve length on my RRL.

 

[Technika2]

@Canuck Panda

What is the chest measurement on your size 44(current) jacket? Across from under the armpit to armpit? If it's not a hassle for you

 

[Aloysius]

Kind of weird to see someone in Chicago giving measurements in cm.

Anyway, both of these would be a bad choice especially as a first/only jacket. Stylistically I think the TMC Beck is nicer. However both of these jackets are racing shirts. This means they are not at all designed to be worn layered. This type of jacket is popular on forums but close to useless. Mine hangs in the closet all year.

Is there a particular reason you’ve narrowed down to these jackets? On top of that you are doing the classic expensive jacket from across the world gamble, which almost always goes badly.

Have you considered dropping into the Schott store in Chicago? Schott made the original of the Beck so they are not some low quality product if that’s what you assumed.

 

[Technika2]

Kind of weird to see someone in Chicago giving measurements in cm.

Anyway, both of these would be a bad choice especially as a first/only jacket. Stylistically I think the TMC Beck is nicer. However both of these jackets are racing shirts. This means they are not at all designed to be worn layered. This type of jacket is popular on forums but close to useless. Mine hangs in the closet all year.

Is there a particular reason you’ve narrowed down to these jackets? On top of that you are doing the classic expensive jacket from across the world gamble, which almost always goes badly.

Have you considered dropping into the Schott store in Chicago? Schott made the original of the Beck so they are not some low quality product if that’s what you assumed.

Hello, yeah I gave the measurements in CM because that’s what the seller listed, I should’ve converted, that’s my bad.

I narrowed down to those two because I like the style a lot. Schott closed their Chicago store permanently, so there isn’t a vintage leather shop in town anymore. The reason I go with RMC or TMC is that I have plenty of their other clothes, and I do like the brand. I’m Asian, so I tend to purchase from Asian markets.

 

[AeroFan_07]

FYI - Alcala's Western Wear in Chicago stocks Schott and typically has many models/styles & sizes.
https://alcalas.com/

 

[Canuck Panda]

@Canuck Panda

What is the chest measurement on your size 44(current) jacket? Across from under the armpit to armpit? If it's not a hassle for you

I’ve only got the “Dextro“ non stencil version from 2023, in the current tag size 44, and here are the tape measure pics,
P2P is 22” to 23”, if I pull out the action back I can probably get a bit more

But the shoulders are definitively 19”

Remember the waist is narrow, 20”!

And the sleeves are only a hair over 25” straight down,

This size was size 42 for my 2014 Elsinor but is 44 now,

And so your seller most likely measure along the curve and also on the larger side, hence I would really suggest to go with the 44 and not the 42.

 

[Aloysius]

I narrowed down to those two because I like the style a lot. Schott closed their Chicago store permanently, so there isn’t a vintage leather shop in town anymore. The reason I go with RMC or TMC is that I have plenty of their other clothes, and I do like the brand. I’m Asian, so I tend to purchase from Asian markets.

I'm also Asian but the patterning/fit of these JP brands is often quite poor in leather wear (even if bizarrely the same brands have great fit in cloth and nylon, as many of us learned the hard way). I understand still going for them when no one else today makes the style, but in this instance that isn't the case.

There are cafe racers that are designed to accommodate layering under–the Schott 141/641 is the go to example but the Vanson Model B is another one. Alcala's which AeroFan mentioned sells the Schott 141 and at a couple hundred less than the price elsewhere at that.

 

[Technika2]

I'm also Asian but the patterning/fit of these JP brands is often quite poor in leather wear (even if bizarrely the same brands have great fit in cloth and nylon, as many of us learned the hard way). I understand still going for them when no one else today makes the style, but in this instance that isn't the case.

There are cafe racers that are designed to accommodate layering under–the Schott 141/641 is the go to example but the Vanson Model B is another one. Alcala's which AeroFan mentioned sells the Schott 141 and at a couple hundred less than the price elsewhere at that.

Thanks for the info, I will check out the store sometime later this week. Seems like the Schott 141 is made of cowhide. The RRL jacket I already own is a cowhide jacket. Another reason I want a TMC is because of the horsehide leather they use.

 

[Technika2]

I’ve only got the “Dextro“ non stencil version from 2023, in the current tag size 44, and here are the tape measure pics,
P2P is 22” to 23”, if I pull out the action back I can probably get a bit more
View attachment 677065 View attachment 677066
But the shoulders are definitively 19”
View attachment 677067
View attachment 677068
Remember the waist is narrow, 20”!
View attachment 677071
And the sleeves are only a hair over 25” straight down,
View attachment 677072
This size was size 42 for my 2014 Elsinor but is 44 now,
View attachment 677075
And so your seller most likely measure along the curve and also on the larger side, hence I would really suggest to go with the 44 and not the 42.
View attachment 677077

Thanks again. Yeah, I'm going with 44. Thanks SOOOO much for the help. I will be sure to post pictures once I get them. I did get a response from SuperXY today (it's the last day they ship things out before the Chinese New Year closure).

They told me that their measurements were taken straight, not curved, but they didn't take another measurement with photos to show me. According to your photo and the measurements on the Dextro, I think I'm comfortable with a 44 in case it comes slightly shorter than the numbers they provide.

Plus, I can just continue working out to fill the jacket as an incentive

 

[Aloysius]

Thanks for the info, I will check out the store sometime later this week. Seems like the Schott 141 is made of cowhide. The RRL jacket I already own is a cowhide jacket. Another reason I want a TMC is because of the horsehide leather they use.

They also have the 689H there, which is in an incredible horsehide–probably my favorite horsehide on the market right now.

If you want the same leather as the RMC with the better quality fit and layering ability of Schott, Schott just dropped the P642H, which is basically the 141 in Shinki horsehide with a detachable winter liner. This might be the golden ticket.