Recreation with a Weak Partner

[reetpleat]

In your case, I would just keep saying no thank you until he gets the hint. I don't think you will be branded a snob by anyone but him , and if he thinks taht, not much you can do.

Perhaps it is because I ma from Seattle, the passive agressive capital of the world. But I don't think there is any good way to tell him.

As for snobbery, I do think it is acceptable for good dancers to want to distance themselves from beginners so they can enjoy themselves. Serious dancers are there for the serious dancing. I am always polite and do not turn requests ever, but I will not ask anyone who is not either rather attractive, or i know she is a decent or good dancer. I hate getting stuck in a bad dance unless something else makes up for it.

Now, i don't think she has to be perfect. I dance and enjoy it with many just medium level dancers. In fact, they can be funner than the serious followers who sometimes only know how to follow rigidly. But there are far too many women who have been dancing for several years who still can not do a decent swing out. I blame both the teachrs, and the modern style of dancing that leaves followers unable to follow a simple lead.

is it their fault. Well, yes and no. But if they cant be bothered to learn the basics, then why should I put up with it.

This is from the idea that I have never met a woman who i thought could not learn to be pretty good, often with just afew simple tips. wish they would ask me. I would be glad to showe them.

men, on the other hand, may be beyond hope. Some just aren't going to get any better no matter what. Funny I would feel this way, but I think it makes sense. I have taught women to dance sometimes, and found them accomplished dancers by the end of the night. But not sure if someone who is a bad leader has better than 50 50 chance of improving, even with help.

 

[KittyT]

Mostly, I wanted to check myself to make sure I had a reasonable attitude.

Paisley, you always seem to have a well-tempered, polite, considerate and well-thought-out response to every social topic that comes up on this board. I totally appreciate that you want to check yourself, but I don't think you have anything to worry about!

 

[Diamondback]

Paisley, you always seem to have a well-tempered, polite, considerate and well-thought-out response to every social topic that comes up on this board. I totally appreciate that you want to check yourself, but I don't think you have anything to worry about!

Indeed. If we had a member classification of "Diplomats of the Lounge", Paisley, I'd say you belong at or near the top of the list. (Although this is coming from a self-described "blunt instrument" , so may not be worth much...)

----------------
Now playing: Jerry Goldsmith - The Tank
via FoxyTunes

 

[Edward]

Jinkies, threads like this make the dance world seem even scarier than I find it already..... I really must look out for a stand line in future so I can stay as far away from it as possible!!!

 

[Paisley]

Blessing required?

You're kidding, right? Have you EVER watched a film from the 1940's with dancing involved? I guess I shouldn't be amazed, because this lack of etiquette seems to be completely pervasive, but it seems sort of obvious when you think about it. Also, please realize that it IS a formality - it isn't that YOU need his blessing, it is that the other GENTLEMAN should be courteous of the fellow's existence.

I don't watch dance movies--I just don't care for them. [huh] And I don't know if they reflect the standards of their day.

Now that I think about it, people on dates or engrossed in conversation tend to be left alone at dances where I go. I think this is a good practice in general.

 

[Foofoogal]

fftopic:

We take our romance in small private ways now, because that's all life allows.

I love this statement Fletch. How true it is. I think I invent it in my head to compensate. lol

 

[Paisley]

Indeed. If we had a member classification of "Diplomats of the Lounge", Paisley, I'd say you belong at or near the top of the list. (Although this is coming from a self-described "blunt instrument" , so may not be worth much...)

Wow, such high praise from you and KittyT! Thank you. I'll do my best to keep your good opinion of me.

 

[Paisley]

Jinkies, threads like this make the dance world seem even scarier than I find it already..... I really must look out for a stand line in future so I can stay as far away from it as possible!!!

Dancing is a little like driving: it takes practice, lessons, attention, skill, and a regard for rules. But it's a lot less dangerous, a lot more fun, and you can usually avoid people with a bad attitude.

 

[Chas]

Jinkies, threads like this make the dance world seem even scarier than I find it already..... I really must look out for a stand line in future so I can stay as far away from it as possible!!!

I can tell you for certain that the swing scene is very political, and it can get ugly. A friend of mine who is an enthusiastic tango dancer has said that he has seen that in the tango scene, as well. So it's not limited to swing.

It was political even in the early days, in NYC during the 1930's. As far as I understand it, Shorty George Snowden believed that he should be calling the shots, and undoubtably somebody must have disagreed.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

There is no greater compliment then when someone asks the person I am with to dance.

So many wonderful messages being given.

 

[Fletch]

As for snobbery, I do think it is acceptable for good dancers to want to distance themselves from beginners so they can enjoy themselves. Serious dancers are there for the serious dancing.

This is as good a point as any to show up the difference between the old, mainstream, mostly-social dancing - where only an oaf or a groper would be shunned completely - and the current, niche-culture, more-for-itself dancing.

The old dance was a way of participating in a mass culture the aspired to a certain gentility. The new dance is a way of differentiating ourselves from a mass culture that has lost such aspirations. Inevitably, I think, it is going to be less inclusive than the old.

 

[Fletch]

fftopic:

We take our romance in small private ways now, because that's all life allows.

I love this statement Fletch. How true it is. I think I invent it in my head to compensate. lol

I don't think you're all that offtopic. Mass culture now is less genteel and more about authenticity (even false authenticity). Love and sex have evicted romance, or reduced it to trite gestures. That's why we don't slow or mid-tempo dance as much as we used to. It gradually got shoved aside, probably because it had been around too long and had gotten trite.

That presents yet another dilemma though: if all it takes to be trite is to be around too long, is there any good basis for revisiting the past? Or is it essentially a dead, inert activity?

 

[Paisley]

Respectfully, let's get back to talking about the pros and cons of recreation with a weak partner. References to activities besides dancing are welcome.

A few of the points brought up so far:

• Different venues emphasize different things: skill at some, socializing at others. If you don't like the emphasis, or lack it, on skill, look for another venue.
  
• People have different reasons for being there.
  
• There may be negative people there. Just avoid them without being rude.
  
• If you don't want to dance with someone, say "no thank you" and sit out the song.
  
• Overconfidence doesn't help you. It impedes your learning and prevents you from seeing yourself as you are. Check yourself every now and then--with people besides your best friend and mother, if possible.
  
• Take a few lessons before going swing dancing.
  
• We're in an era where standards of behavior and dress are all over the place. Try not to be offended at minor breaches of decorum.
  
• "Loser buys drinks afterward" may be a good incentive for the weakest member to improve.

 

[Troglodyte]

Carpe Diem!

Fletch:

You would be neat to know.

Of course the past is dead, can't and shouldn't bring it back. FL's "retro" folks (myself included) aren't from the 19X0s (pick your decade), we're modern men and women enjoying aspects of the past in a necessary 21st century context. Born in your "perfect" decade, you'dve longed for the minuet. Me too. Men like us are always out of place, out of time. Great topic for a psych PhD thesis!

As I teach units headed off to battle: Understand the battlefield (dance floor, retro scene) as it IS, not as you would have it. Form your course of action from there.

And ('60s crap philosophy taking over) dance like nobody's watching!

Trog

 

[Troglodyte]

Knowing the Battlefield

And Paisley has just defined the battlefield better than most could. Let's work within that!

Trog

 

[Paisley]

Troglodyte, I love your point about understanding things as they are. If anyone longs for the ballrooms of old, I refer you to post 18 on p. 1. For all the faults of the current dance scene, there are nights that are absolutely magical.

It's been mentioned that dancing isn't a sport. OK. For things that are a sport (or a game), would anyone have a objection to a club that emphasized skill? I used to take taekwondo, and it was all about the skill. Nevertheless, I never sensed any politics or snobbery at the do jong. Weaker members simply didn't advance, but were welcome to stay.

 

[Inky]

My husband and I are complete ECS newbies. We've been taking lessons often for about a year now. Soon we will be taking three hours of private lessons just for the two of us with a teacher we both like and respect. Some fine tuning is necessary.

My husband is painfully shy and easily distracted. Classes where we change partners are torture for him, thought the best way to learn for me. I love to dance with anyone that will ask, and unfortunately, they don't ask often. I don't know why that is, we're not awful, but I think my hubby can be intimidating or so I'm told (even if he is a pussycat by nature).

One male friend does ask me now and then to dance, and hopefully when the local scene starts up again in September, hubby will be more confident and with some encouragement, ask other ladies to dance, because I really think that is the only way other gents will ask me. We just need to build his confidence in his moves and I firmly believe the private lessons and ongoing group classes will help him.

and no, we don't have bad grooming or perspiration problems, we checked

 

[Paisley]

Inky, I think the answer is for you to just ask other people to dance. There are typically more women than men at dances, and if you seem to be on a date with your husband, people may be wary of interrupting you. If you're dancing at a very low level, wait for a slower song you can dance well to.

 

[Inky]

Inky, I think the answer is for you to just ask other people to dance. There are typically more women than men at dances, and if you seem to be on a date with your husband, people may be wary of interrupting you. If you're dancing at a very low level, wait for a slower song you can dance well to.

Thank you Paisley, that is good advice and I have done it a couple of times with good success. My husband doesn't mind at all, he's just so painfully shy. I will be more aggressive (in asking, not in character, lol) when the season starts up again.

 

[Shirin]

Most of what's been said here applies more to venues that cater to serious dancers where people dance for its own sake.

Ahh, I didn't quite get that part!