Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Peacoat]

That is an interesting peacoat. Wish there were a better picture, though. I might be interested if I could see what type of shape it is in. Doubt that he will get very much because the picture is not detailed enough.

 

[sfflyfish]

Mission Accomplished...

Well, I got a Peacoat. Actually I got two.:eusa_doh:

The first one was eBay auction # 230215558687
It has the Naval Clothing Depot label, six buttons showing and the double row of stitching on the sleeves.

Unfortunately, it was in much worse condition than as described. Lots of missing stitching in the lining, badly frayed button holes,misaligned buttons, a torn pocket seam, etc.

The good news is the wool is in excellent condition and the lining is not torn, frayed or worn much at all. I have a very talented seamstress who says she can make it as good as new. In the end, the seller gave me a generous partial refund so I have all of $33 invested in it including shipping.

The second one is eBay Auction # 130194362880.
The contract date of DSA-100-70-C-0103 makes it a bit newer than the WWII era as described in the auction and my original one from the Sixties. But thanks to the info I gathered here I was able to insure it was in fact constructed with the original navy color Kersey wool like my old one.

This coat is absolutely flawless in person. It really looks like it was issued last week! It probably didn't get much wear at all since according to the Navy Rate marked inside EMCS(SS), the original sailor owner was a Submariner.

Now if I can just decide whether to keep the gold buttons or have them changed to the black anchors?

Thanks for all the help!

Regards,
Doug

 

[Jovan]

My friend, keep the gold buttons. Unless an item of vintage is missing certain things, I believe you should always keep the original features if possible. [huh]

 

[Peacoat]

One thing I don't understand is gold buttons on a peacoat. Officers and Chiefs wore gold buttons, but they wore them on bridge coats, which is similar to a peacoat, but of lighter wool and longer. Officers and Chiefs did not wear peacoats, so the gold buttons shouldn't be on those coats.

The standard button for peacoats was the black button with the fouled anchor. In 1976 (I believe) Admiral Zumwalt had the black buttons changed over to the pewter colored buttons which had the same design as the gold buttons, but they were of a silver color and not gold. A few years later, the pewter buttons changed back to black. Below is a picture of a pewter button.

With all of that in mind, how did gold buttons legitimately get on an enlisted man's peacoat? Perhaps that coat was used in a military academy, and the gold buttons indicated upperclassmen? I just don't know.

To answer your question in a more direct manner, I would go with what was on my coat originally. Especially since I don't think the gold buttons are original to the peacoat that you have.

I have also attached a picture of a gold button so you can tell if yours is the same as the standard Navy button

 

[Jovan]

Wow, just a few years later? And I thought the constant uniform changes in Star Trek were bad...

 

[sfflyfish]

Peacoat,
The buttons appear to be identical (Eagle facing left as you look at the button) to the gold button you pictured. If they were changed at least it was to correct Navy buttons?

Additionally, there are a couple of other features on this particular coat that have me curious.
The coat can only be buttoned completely from left to right. IOW, On the right side there are only 2 button holes, one for the interior button and one on the lapel. There is no button under the left collar.

The single interior button is a black anchor button. Might this be an indication the coat originally had black anchor buttons on it?

If it did not have a perfectly legible and unmolested period correct label dating it to 1970 I'd have been concerned as originality as a true Navy issued coat?

The label reads:
Coat, Man's, Wool, Kersey (Peacoat
Contract No. DSA 100-70-C-0103
Size 42R
8405-268-8616
Bonham Manufacturing Co. Inc.
100% Wool
Dry Clean Only

In any case, I'll probably change the buttons back to black if only cause the gold ones are a bit flashy for my taste.

Regarding the Name and Rate printed inside the coat EMCS (SS) ; I know EM stands for Electrician's Mate and (SS) stands for Sub duty But I don't know what ..CS represents?

Regards,
Doug

One thing I don't understand is gold buttons on a peacoat. Officers and Chiefs wore gold buttons, but they wore them on bridge coats, which is similar to a peacoat, but of lighter wool and longer. Officers and Chiefs did not wear peacoats, so the gold buttons shouldn't be on those coats...

...To answer your question in a more direct manner, I would go with what was on my coat originally. Especially since I don't think the gold buttons are original to the peacoat that you have.

I have also attached a picture of a gold button so you can tell if yours is the same as the standard Navy button

 

[Jovan]

I tried on an issue peacoat yesterday at the local Army Surplus... besides being overpriced there ($125 for wool/nylon blend???) what struck me was how fitted it really was, and how short. There were no long sizes and the 40 just barely covered my wrist. These ones were also interesting in that there was no rear vent.

 

[Peacoat]

May not have been an issue coat. The label will tell the tale.

 

[craigob]

thanks for all the messages and advice, I actully found the two missing buttons and Im going to get it cleaned, would anyone have a guess at what i should sell this coat for, If i have to use ebay so be it, but would rather sell it elsewhere

 

[Jovan]

May not have been an issue coat. The label will tell the tale.

Sorry, it probably wasn't on second thought. Eight buttons with a flat collar IIRC.

 

[sfflyfish]

Black Corduroy Pockets

Check eBay auction # 280202502940 There's 5 days left on a size 38 with those rare black corduroy pocket liners.

Regards,
Doug

 

[Peacoat]

If it were a 42 I would be interested. That lining is fascinating.

 

[sfflyfish]

Hey Peacoat,

I just picked up a coat with digit for digit the exact tag referenced in your post quoted below. It's a size 42, but it is definitely fitted closer than the size 42 70's era coat I got a few days ago.

It wasn't exactly cheap but it was from precisely the era I wanted to replace my long gone original one. With only some pulled threads near the rear vent and a couple of incorrectly sewn buttons, it's a beauty and my search is over!

Now can any of you tell me about when the coats went from having buttonholes on both sides to just a single buttonhole on the on the right side? I now know it happened sometime between 65 and 70 but that's as close as I can get?

Regards,
Doug

Jovan, looks like a size 38?

Below is a picture of the 1965 tag that I discussed last week. Note the absence of any date coding as was shown in the "US NAVY" tags that were posted a while back. This US Navy tag was used from 1959, or the early sixties to 1965. Some of the earlier versions had the date coded in the tag.

 

[Peacoat]

I wore my 1949 size 42 last week and noticed that it is fitted tighter than the mid 60's and 70's coats that I have. In fact it is fitted about the same as a 1967 size 40 peacoat. I think the sizes have gotten a little looser over the years.

The 1967 coat can only be buttoned on the right side. The 1965 and earlier coats, as you noted, can be buttoned both ways. Some where I have a 1966 coat, but I couldn't find it just now. If I can find it, that will tell you if the bi lateral buttoning stopped in 1965 or 1966. I hope I still have it, but I think I looked at every peacoat I have. I'll check again tomorrow in the daylight. If I can find it, I will let you know about the buttoning.

 

[Peacoat]

Well, I seem to have lost my 1966 peacoat. What we do know is that the 1965 coats buttoned on both sides and the 1967 coats did not. So it has been narrowed down for you, Sfflyfish. We just don't know about the 1966 coats. Below is a picture of a 1966 tag. If any of you out there have one, please check and see if the coat can button both left and right. Sfflyfish would like to know. [Now that I see the size on the tag, that was never my coat; maybe I just imagined that I had a 1966 coat!]

 

[sfflyfish]

Peacoat,
The answer may be that the button hole specification changed in 1967 at the same time the corduroy pockets were discontinued?

I think from reading this complete thread that the 38R tag that you posted was from a compilation of labels wetmarble posted back in 1/07 and then quoted a couple more times afterwards.

Also, it is apparent from reading this thread that wetmarble had at the time quite a collection of photos of the various iterations of these fine coats. it is equally apparent he hasn't posted here since April of '07.

Are you still in contact with him? Or do you have them saved yourself? I'd sure like to get my hands on all the pics he originally posted. Some of the early ones have been taken down.

Any help you could provide sure would be appreciated. I am 8 posts away from being able to PM but I can be reached via sfflyfish(at)comcast(dot)net.
(Replace the words 'at' & 'dot' in the address with the correct symbols!)

Best regards,
Doug

Well, I seem to have lost my 1966 peacoat. What we do know is that the 1965 coats buttoned on both sides and the 1967 coats did not. So it has been narrowed down for you, Sfflyfish. We just don't know about the 1966 coats. Below is a picture of a 1966 tag. If any of you out there have one, please check and see if the coat can button both left and right. Sfflyfish would like to know. [Now that I see the size on the tag, that was never my coat; maybe I just imagined that I had a 1966 coat!]

 

[Peacoat]

I may be able to track down his email address. I'll send you an email later so we can get off this board and let them carry on with flight jackets and leather jackets.

Being an ex military pilot (see my avatar) and a motorcycle rider, I fully understand their obsession with those types of jackets. I feel that peacoats are tolerated more than encouraged here, but we can blame Matt Jones for starting this thread in August, 2005. 280 posts and 18,298 views later, it is still going strong.

 

[lkbenson@comcas]

I had to go look and can tell you that a 1966 coat buttons only one way. I've worn it numerous times and didn't ever notice that fact.

 

[Peacoat]

Thanks. So 1965 was the last year for the "US NAVY" tag, as well as the coat buttoning both ways.

 

[sfflyfish]

So that begs the question; Are there any coats that button to one side only that also have corduroy pocket liners?

Thanks. So 1965 was the last year for the "US NAVY" tag, as well as the coat buttoning both ways.