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[blewnote]

While I think there probably was an increased internal cost associated with a fur felt hood destined to be a Stetson One-hundred the real increased cost might have been in the labor to finish it. I have a Resistol 3X that was an open crown with a hand felted edge. The finished fur felt is every bit as nice as a One-hundred. We know the hand felted edge was discontinued because it was labor intensive. It stands to reason they would have hand picked the felt hood that was to receive so much labor time in the final product. In the case of this Resistol the 3X hood probably got the same finishing process as would a One-hundred. A more common 3X order would not have.

When you compare the numerous Open Roads you have purchased I assume you are speaking about vintage OR’s (vOR’s) & not the modern 6X with its 4.25” crown & modern blocking? Because typical vOR’s of the era range from 2.75 to 3.0” x 5.25 to 5.75” open crown. And vintage Stratoliners (vStrat’s) vs the modern Strat dimensions of 2.5 x 4.5”? The vStrat dimensions typically run 2.5” x 4.5 to 5” open crown. ( Some very early Strats had brims up to 2.75” before 2.5” became standard). And the famous Block #52 of the vOR with its straight standup sides with no taper? Newbies typically pay little attention to blocking. The vOR & Strat are totally different in blocking. So I don’t find them indistinguishable.

According to catalogs the Stetson One-hundred (100) was available in models from an OR thru a full size Western (~3.25” brim). The most common 100 that surfaces today tends to be a 3 x 5.75 to 6” & was originally an open crown thin ribbon, available both in bound edge & raw edge brims. They are block #52’s except for the full size Westerns. From the description of the 100 in question the only dimension we have to work with is the 2” brim. Surely you don’t question the fact this 100 has been cut & resized to fit & be more fedora like? If the objective was to size down to fit it would not have been necessary to cut & bind the brim at 2”. I’ve lost track of why you think it could be an OR & by extension a Strat.

As I have said, show me a wholesale fur felt grade chart, a catalog entry or other ephemera where the 100 grade felt was offered in a fedora hat.

Just putting it out there that I'm asking for education/clarification, not trying to start an argument... Sometimes text doesn't read as well as actual conversation and wanna make sure you know that's not my intention.

I'm not questioning that the Stetson 100 in question has been cut and resized. It has, and it's rather strange to me that one would buy such an expensive hat and then give it more brim by resizing it *smaller* (usually I feel like people are trying to gain size because there's less of those larger sizes) and then trim the brim down to 2". It seems sacrilegious to me!

I'll go back to what you wrote, because that's what made me ask:

"the Stetson One-hundred was never offered as a fedora in typical fedora dimensions. It has been resized & fedoraized."

I'm trying to understand what you think defines a fedora and by extension why this particular 100 has been "fedoraized." Is it the dimensions? The crease? The block and flange profile? The ribbon treatment? Asking because maybe I've been mistaken about what constitutes one.

I've been operating under the assumption that a fedora was a type of soft dress hat, which could have a straight or tapered block profile, any variety of brim and ribbon treatments (but not the 3/6/etc ply cord or leather bands seem on westerns) and brim widths ranging from 2" to 3" (and maybe even larger?, although I feel like larger than 3" seems to have been mainly on western hats).

My understanding is the the Open Road, which is one of the common configurations a 100 was offered in (it may not have the model name in the band, but it is offered as such in Miller Stockman catalogs as you point out), is a Western inspired fedora, which is why so many people on this forum, myself included, have chosen to bash theirs in a fedora style crease (making it look an awful lot like a Stratoliner in my eyes, which is why I brought up Stratoliners which are more of a straight-up fedora).

I guess I was trying to say that in my eyes many Stetson 100s *are* fedoras since I'd classify an Open Road as a style of fedora.

And I guess I was curious to discuss it at length because I've been thinking on this subject lately... I recently posted two hats from the 30s that I would definitely say are fedoras but came with what I perceived to be a cattlemen crease and was told that it should be considered an alpine or banker crease, which was used on fedoras.

You had me going down the rabbit hole to learn more about Stetson 100s and I came across this post from a fellow lounger. So at least one Stetson 100 was offered in an unabashedly non-western fedora makeup.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-stetson-one-hundred-100.33613/post-2518842

As an addendum:

I have about 8 vintage ORs (40s and 50s) and an late 40s/early 50s Stratoliner, so yes, talking about those. I'm not at home to grab my Strat and post some side by side pics with both open crown or bashed in a teardrop with a rake and a defined pinch, but aside from the flanging on the Stratoliner brim I feel like they look pretty similar (perhaps indistinguishable was too absolute of a word, but they look very similar to my eyes).

Sorry for such a lengthy post, I nerd out on this stuff and have been doing my best to learn as much as I can from y'all!

 

[jeffgarf]

brim widths ranging from 2" to 3" (and maybe even larger?, although I feel like larger than 3" seems to have been mainly on western hats).

I have some fedoras with up to 3 1/2" brims, definitely not western (unless you count The Frisco Kid and his decendants!).

 

[Hurricane Jack]

For this Stetson One Hundred, the brim measures 2 1/4" from the ribbon; bang on 2" at the original brim break.

Are you saying that, in addition to changing the original shape of the hat, and sizing the hat down to 7 3/8, some one also trimmed and finished the brim edge differently than it was originally finished?

Until someone finds proof of a 100 with a 2” brim that’s what I’m saying. See answer on sizing down below.

I'm not questioning that the Stetson 100 in question has been cut and resized. It has, and it's rather strange to me that one would buy such an expensive hat and then give it more brim by resizing it *smaller* (usually I feel like people are trying to gain size because there's less of those larger sizes) and then trim the brim down to 2". It seems sacrilegious to me!

I never said it was sized smaller. Think about it. The brim lost .250” when the hat was sized up to fit 7-3/8. If you size up from size 7-1/4 (circumference of 22.750) to size 7-3/8 (23”) that .250” has to come from somewhere. The ID had to get larger. The original brim break has to move out on the brim. And the new break will not be a crisp 90 degree brim break. The new break will not be 90 degrees. If you pay attention you will see a lot of hats that have been stretched to where the 90 degree brim break is no longer crisp & the ribbon now rides above the break.

My understanding is the the Open Road, which is one of the common configurations a 100 was offered in (it may not have the model name in the band, but it is offered as such in Miller Stockman catalogs as you point out), is a Western inspired fedora, which is why so many people on this forum, myself included, have chosen to bash theirs in a fedora style crease (making it look an awful lot like a Stratoliner in my eyes, which is why I brought up Stratoliners which are more of a straight-up fedora).

When someone does this type of thing to anything rare with a low survival rate like a 100 it reminds me of the woman who gets engaged to be married to her boyfriend. There’s just a few little things she doesn’t like about him…but she can change those.

And I guess I was curious to discuss it at length because I've been thinking on this subject lately... I recently posted two hats from the 30s that I would definitely say are fedoras but came with what I perceived to be a cattlemen crease and was told that it should be considered an alpine or banker crease, which was used on fedoras.

The Alpine crease & bankers/doctors crease requires a totally different block from a Cattleman’s crease. They endorse, require & accentuate the obvious taper.

 

[Judgmentalist]

Until someone finds proof of a 100 with a 2” brim that’s what I’m saying. See answer on sizing down below.

I never said it was sized smaller. Think about it. The brim lost .250” when the hat was sized up to fit 7-3/8. If you size up from size 7-1/4 (circumference of 22.750) to size 7-3/8 (23”) that .250” has to come from somewhere. The ID had to get larger. The original brim break has to move out on the brim. And the new break will not be a crisp 90 degree brim break. The new break will not be 90 degrees. If you pay attention you will see a lot of hats that have been stretched to where the 90 degree brim break is no longer crisp & the ribbon now rides above the break.

When someone does this type of thing to anything rare with a low survival rate like a 100 it reminds me of the woman who gets engaged to be married to her boyfriend. There’s just a few little things she doesn’t like about him…but she can change those.

The Alpine crease & bankers/doctors crease requires a totally different block from a Cattleman’s crease. They endorse, require & accentuate the obvious taper.

I agree 100% about changing stuff - I may try to stretch one a little but that’s it. I ain’t reworking something that’s older than my Dad and still kicking.

I would really like to see some photos of this hat before any alterations were made. The resizing (smaller!?) I guess I understand, even if I’m not a fan. I can’t imagine what would possess someone to mess with the brim - unless it was chewed up or something, but the felt on this hat is in good shape.

 

[jeffgarf]

I agree 100% about changing stuff - I may try to stretch one a little but that’s it. I ain’t reworking something that’s older than my Dad and still kicking.

I would really like to see some photos of this hat before any alterations were made. The resizing (smaller!?) I guess I understand, even if I’m not a fan. I can’t imagine what would possess someone to mess with the brim - unless it was chewed up or something, but the felt on this hat is in good shape.

I have personally reworked some hats where that is the only way to retain the value of the vintage felt and keep it in a state that you'd want to be seen wearing it. I don't know about the original condition or the issues this hat may originally have had, but it is not an incredibly uncommon practice.

 

[blewnote]

I have some fedoras with up to 3 1/2" brims, definitely not western (unless you count The Frisco Kid and his decendants!).

Yeah, they can be all over the place, that was kinda my point.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

I agree 100% about changing stuff -

I have personally reworked some hats where that is the only way to retain the value of the vintage felt and keep it in a state that you'd want to be seen wearing it.

You remind me of when I belonged to the National Classic Chevy Club for 55 - 56 - 57 Chevrolets. Was always looking for more examples to own. Saw an ad in the local classifieds one day that said very little except the “fully restored” 1957 Belair could be seen parked at the owner’s place of business. I went to see this fully restored Belair & learn more. It turned out it had a one piece fiberglass clamshell tilt front clip, over a later 396ci V8 from a salvage yard, Crager mag wheels, & new seat cover. I learned that day that “restored” means a lot of different things to different people. No way did the unit value exceed the collective sum of its parts.

 

[jeffgarf]

You remind me of when I belonged to the National Classic Chevy Club for 55 - 56 - 57 Chevrolets. Was always looking for more examples to own. Saw an ad in the local classifieds one day that said very little except the “fully restored” 1957 Belair could be seen parked at the owner’s place of business. I went to see this fully restored Belair & learn more. It turned out it had a one piece fiberglass clamshell tilt front clip, over a later 396ci V8 from a salvage yard, Crager mag wheels, & new seat cover. I learned that day that “restored” means a lot of different things to different people. No way did the unit value exceed the collective sum of its parts.

Ahhh, I'd never claim "fully restored" on one of these hats, nor would I sell them (if I can help it and certainly not without disclosure). For my own use, however, that's an entirely different matter.

 

[Judgmentalist]

On that note - another one from @drmaxtejeda - this is almost the first hat I wanted. I thought I might never find one on the secondary market.

I was originallly drawn to bowlers, and I saw Homburgs as a compromise that gave me the structured brim I wanted and chilled the hat out enough to make not look a costume item to my wife. Pretty effective strategy, though at this point I would also wear a bowler.

This hat is listed at 60.5 but it doesn't fit like a 60.5, and you can see a smidge of room in the sweatband, I think, but no problems with the brim break.

I'm very happy to have this hat. Many thanks to Dr. Max.

Optimo Homburg

 

[EL-Jimenez74]

On that note - another one from @drmaxtejeda - this is almost the first hat I wanted. I thought I might never find one on the secondary market.

I was originallly drawn to bowlers, and I saw Homburgs as a compromise that gave me the structured brim I wanted and chilled the hat out enough to make not look a costume item to my wife. Pretty effective strategy, though at this point I would also wear a bowler.

This hat is listed at 60.5 but it doesn't fit like a 60.5, and you can see a smidge of room in the sweatband, I think, but no problems with the brim break.

I'm very happy to have this hat. Many thanks to Dr. Max.

Optimo Homburg
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I really need to find a nice Homburg or Lords hat in my size! Just reached out to Mike @ Northwest to get on his list for a Lords hat, his are amazing.

 

[Judgmentalist]

I really need to find a nice Homburg or Lords hat in my size! Just reached out to Mike @ Northwest to get on his list for a Lords hat, his are amazing.

He is working on one for me as well, eventually.

 

[Judgmentalist]

On that note - another one from @drmaxtejeda - this is almost the first hat I wanted. I thought I might never find one on the secondary market.

I was originallly drawn to bowlers, and I saw Homburgs as a compromise that gave me the structured brim I wanted and chilled the hat out enough to make not look a costume item to my wife. Pretty effective strategy, though at this point I would also wear a bowler.

This hat is listed at 60.5 but it doesn't fit like a 60.5, and you can see a smidge of room in the sweatband, I think, but no problems with the brim break.

I'm very happy to have this hat. Many thanks to Dr. Max.

Optimo Homburg
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I know this isn't a hat, but I also got this in today. I had a really hard time pulling the trigger on this book; I just kept thinking about the hat I wouldn't be able to buy because I spent the money on this instead - ah well, such is life. I've been wanting to get my hands on this thing for a while. I also think I'm going to subscribe to @belfastboy 's magazine. Time I got a bit more education, maybe.

It came wrapped in a cardboard box the same size as the book, and the spine was crunched a little bit, and there was a little g unk on the spine also. For what they charge for this thing, they should have Gandalf drop it off riding one of those flying eagle-things. It may clean up fine when I have a minute to mess with it. edit: the sensor doesn't like g unk? Interesting.

Optimo - The Art of the Hat Maker

 

[BizzAnt]

This hat showed up on the lounge back in January from a cat looking to get a value for it, I didn’t think much of it at the time. Then just the other day I came across his post again and figured I would reach out and see if it was still available and how much he wanted for it. Turns out he was located in the same state as me, definitely didn’t expect that. So I believe at this point it was ment to be. I ended up meeting him at the liquor store and got this amazing hat in basically NOS condition for a great price, definitely now the most mint hat I have. Couldn’t be happier to have made the deal locally from an awesome dude. He told me he had the hat for over 20 years.

 

[Judgmentalist]

This hat showed up on the lounge back in January from a cat looking to get a value for it, I didn’t think much of it at the time. Then just the other day I came across his post again and figured I would reach out and see if it was still available and how much he wanted for it. Turns out he was in the same state as me, definitely didn’t expect that. So I believe at this point it was ment to be. I ended up meeting him at the liquor store and got this amazing hat in basically in NOS condition for a great price, definitely now the most mint hat I have. Couldn’t be happier to have made the deal locally from an awesome dude. He told me he had the hat for over 20 years.
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Very, very cool.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

On that note - another one from @drmaxtejeda - this is almost the first hat I wanted. I thought I might never find one on the secondary market.

I was originallly drawn to bowlers, and I saw Homburgs as a compromise that gave me the structured brim I wanted and chilled the hat out enough to make not look a costume item to my wife. Pretty effective strategy, though at this point I would also wear a bowler.

This hat is listed at 60.5 but it doesn't fit like a 60.5, and you can see a smidge of room in the sweatband, I think, but no problems with the brim break.

I'm very happy to have this hat. Many thanks to Dr. Max.

Optimo Homburg
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Beautiful

 

[blewnote]

This hat showed up on the lounge back in January from a cat looking to get a value for it, I didn’t think much of it at the time. Then just the other day I came across his post again and figured I would reach out and see if it was still available and how much he wanted for it. Turns out he was in the same state as me, definitely didn’t expect that. So I believe at this point it was ment to be. I ended up meeting him at the liquor store and got this amazing hat in basically NOS condition for a great price, definitely now the most mint hat I have. Couldn’t be happier to have made the deal locally from an awesome dude. He told me he had the hat for over 20 years.
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I remember that one! Love the tone on tone instead of a black ribbon. If it'd been a size smaller I woulda tried to cop it when it popped up. Nice get!

 

[Blare]

This hat showed up on the lounge back in January from a cat looking to get a value for it, I didn’t think much of it at the time. Then just the other day I came across his post again and figured I would reach out and see if it was still available and how much he wanted for it. Turns out he was in the same state as me, definitely didn’t expect that. So I believe at this point it was ment to be. I ended up meeting him at the liquor store and got this amazing hat in basically NOS condition for a great price, definitely now the most mint hat I have. Couldn’t be happier to have made the deal locally from an awesome dude. He told me he had the hat for over 20 years.
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This is stunning !!

 

[Rmccamey]

I really need to find a nice Homburg or Lords hat in my size! Just reached out to Mike @ Northwest to get on his list for a Lords hat, his are amazing.

You won't be disappointed!

Northwest homburg

 

[Judgmentalist]

Another one from @drmaxtejeda . You guys talked me into this one talking about how cool they are, and I'm glad you did. This is also the hat I'm wearing today, since it's so stinking cool, but I will try to show some restraint and not make another post about it lol.

This hat has a really nice shape and I love the color. The rest of it you know better than I do. Thanks Dr. Max.

Dr. Max Stack

 

[Pellie]

Another one from @drmaxtejeda . You guys talked me into this one talking about how cool they are, and I'm glad you did. This is also the hat I'm wearing today, since it's so stinking cool, but I will try to show some restraint and not make another post about it lol.

This hat has a really nice shape and I love the color. The rest of it you know better than I do. Thanks Dr. Max.

Dr. Max Stack
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Do you still have money left for food or the barber? Haha (kidding) ;-) Nice Stack!!