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[hatophile]

Jeff - great finds!

+1. You gonna leave the brown one open crown?

 

[Brad Bowers]

Afternoon Gents,
I used to post here on occasion but I think my account got deleted due to the vast length of time it's been since I posted last. Anyhow, I was out to some antique/vintage stores this last Saturday and picked up this Dobbs Sixteen-Fifty long hair.

Very nice! Dobbs used embroidered liner tips from at least the 1930s through the early-1960s. This style was used in the '50s and '60s, but the hat could be late-'40s. My question: What does this part of the sweatband say? I can't read it, and I've tried to adjust contrast and things like that. I think I can make out the words "Edge" and "Trade Mark," but I'm lost beyond that. This might be our best clue.

Hats at that price point are usually a later hat, but I've also never seen one with "Sixteen Fifty" as the model name. Curious and interesting!

Brad

 

[bowlerman]

+1. You gonna leave the brown one open crown?

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[Roan]

Very nice! Dobbs used embroidered liner tips from at least the 1930s through the early-1960s. This style was used in the '50s and '60s, but the hat could be late-'40s. My question: What does this part of the sweatband say? I can't read it, and I've tried to adjust contrast and things like that. I think I can make out the words "Edge" and "Trade Mark," but I'm lost beyond that. This might be our best clue.

Hats at that price point are usually a later hat, but I've also never seen one with "Sixteen Fifty" as the model name. Curious and interesting!

Brad

Thanks for the info on the embroidered liners! I had no idea that they were used for such a long time.
Sorry about the poor picture quality, I took them with my phone and it doesn't take close-ups very well at all.
The text within the border says, "Overtone Edge - Trade Mark" and the smaller words outside and underneath of the border say, "Patent Applied For". It's fairly fine type and is even somewhat difficult to read in person.

- R

P.S.
Here's a couple of photos of the inside of the sweatband; I didn't see any other markings or tags of any kind.

 

[Lotsahats]

I picked up one of the cheap 5x American Beavers floating around the 'ay; I wanted a hat I could experiment with and not worry about. First let me say that the seller was absolutely accurate about the hat, and he was fast in shipping, so I want to be clear that my comments don't knock him. That said, I was reminded why I go vintage or bespoke. The crown of the hat isn't bad, with a decent pounce and pretty good hand; it doesn't want to do much by way of a crease, but I'm going to work at it with some steam tomorrow, so I'll report how it goes.

The brim is as stiff as cardboard, and it has almost no consistent flange to it; as well, the felt seems to have some really long fibers in it still, almost as though it hasn't been finished at all. The ribbon is tolerable but with no real style.

I'll use this hat to learn from, though, and at the price, it wasn't bad, but it just reminded me that not all hats are created equal.

 

[Monte]

Jeff, wow and wow on the finds. I can see how smooth that gray one is.
Straining to get a good angle on this shot.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Thanks for the info on the embroidered liners! I had no idea that they were used for such a long time.
Sorry about the poor picture quality, I took them with my phone and it doesn't take close-ups very well at all.
The text within the border says, "Overtone Edge - Trade Mark" and the smaller words outside and underneath of the border say, "Patent Applied For". It's fairly fine type and is even somewhat difficult to read in person.

- R

P.S.
Here's a couple of photos of the inside of the sweatband; I didn't see any other markings or tags of any kind.

Cool! Thanks, that narrows it down pretty precisely, as far as I can tell, to the Fall of 1947. This is the only reference I can find to Overtone Edge (a name I haven't run across before). The ads from 1947 also say Patent Applied For. There is no record for a USPTO trademark for that name. If it was a design patent for which they applied, it apparently wasn't granted either, though I can see that this design is very similar to a patent from 1942 granted to the Norwalk Hat Company. My guess is that there was some litigation or possible litigation that prevented Hat Corporation of America from using the design (and thus the term Overtone Edge) beyond 1947. The factory label is a '40s factory label, so this fits, as well. To be fair, a similar edge could have been created using different colored felt with the second Cavanagh Edge patent.

The two-tone edge remains pretty rare. I can't even begin to stress how rare this hat is! Phenomenal find!

Brad

 

[Rogera]

Jeff and Roan, wow great finds! I love the flanges on those Borsalinos...very nice

 

[Roan]

Cool! Thanks, that narrows it down pretty precisely, as far as I can tell, to the Fall of 1947. This is the only reference I can find to Overtone Edge (a name I haven't run across before). The ads from 1947 also say Patent Applied For. There is no record for a USPTO trademark for that name. If it was a design patent for which they applied, it apparently wasn't granted either, though I can see that this design is very similar to a patent from 1942 granted to the Norwalk Hat Company. My guess is that there was some litigation or possible litigation that prevented Hat Corporation of America from using the design (and thus the term Overtone Edge) beyond 1947. The factory label is a '40s factory label, so this fits, as well. To be fair, a similar edge could have been created using different colored felt with the second Cavanagh Edge patent.

The two-tone edge remains pretty rare. I can't even begin to stress how rare this hat is! Phenomenal find!

Brad

Wow, Brad, thanks for all the information! It's neat to know it's an older hat...though i apparently had no idea what I was buying in terms of the rarity of it. I guess I'm done wearing it too; I'd never forgive myself if I accidentally damaged it.

- R

 

[mikespens]

I've suffered green hat envy for quite some time. Rick Blaine posted a link to an Ebay seller who bought 17 trailers full of Beaver Brand NOS auction stuff. I checked it out of curiosity and ended up buying one because they are reasonably priced and I figured at worst I'd end up with a rain beater. This was labeled American Legend in the cheap liner which I removed. I also removed some ugly tack stitches on the ribbon. The sweat is usable but lower quality than vintage as can be expected. There are several dull spots on the sweat where it looks like other branding was scuffed off. Felt is typical of modern hats such as current Stetsons, thin, not very dense, and fairly stiff but workable and will hold some shaping with water which I've done. Crown ranges from 4 1/2 to 3 7/8, brim is 2 1/4, weighs 3.88 oz w/o liner. All in all got what I expected, a decent everyday hat I don't need to worry about getting caught in a frequent around here downpour. And a bit of relief from green hat envy until I eventually find the right one.

 

[Lotsahats]

Nice work, Mike! I picked up a green, too, and I started working it with steam this afternoon. Got the ugly center dent out of it and put in a merely passable front crease:

Not bad for my first time and with only a few minutes of work. I see what you all mean now about how easy it is to shape a wet hat.

I think I'll iron the brim flat, then see about putting a little curve into the front and back.

 

[dh66]

Great looking green hats guys. No shame in a brand new hat.
Roan that Dobbs is amazing!

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[mikespens]

Looks good Aaron. Think we may see quite a few of these pop up around here. I had a hard time passing on a blue one too.

No shame dh66, just the facts, new hats aren't as nice as old ones. I'm pleased with what I got for the money.

 

[dh66]

Not as nice as an old one, but much nicer than not one. Thats what I meant

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[ManofKent]

Mike & Lotsahats - they look pretty good. Nice shade of green.

I'm waiting on a blue one to float across the pond from the same source - again it's a cheap way to fill a gap in my colour collection.

 

[John Galt]

Mike & Lotsahats - they look pretty good. Nice shade of green.

I'm waiting on a blue one to float across the pond from the same source - again it's a cheap way to fill a gap in my colour collection.

What about the mustard yellow? Am I the only one that's tempted to buy that rare bird?


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[ManofKent]

What about the mustard yellow? Am I the only one that's tempted to buy that rare bird?


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

I couldn't see one in fur-felt my size otherwise I'd have been tempted There are a couple of other hats I'm tempted by, but it probably makes sense to see how well the two I ordered (blue American Legend and Silverbelly/Sand Beaverbrand)fit my inbetween size noggin - hopefully they'll be here soon. Excellent service from the seller in terms of international postage costs, and combining shipping.

 

[mikespens]

I'll second the sellers responsiveness and the hat was well packed as well.

 

[mikespens]

My second Supernatural milan in less than a month. This one is pristine except for the slightest adhesive stains on the pug.

 

[dh66]

Mike that hat is perfect.
Nice teardrop shaped porkpie crown; not too stingy and not too wide of a brim; and sweeeeeet band. The perfect accessory for a warm afternoon filled with drinks with little umbrellas in them.
That hat would even look class act pulled down over your face while passed out in a lawn chair.


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