Politics and outwear

[Sloan1874]

We should not exempt the bigger labels from the cause of pain for many makers. I've heard of premier makers presenting one high-end label with sample jackets, giving them a reasonable price to the company rep, and then being told that they have to cut the price by £100-plus. What can makers do? Either show them the door, as happened in this case, or accept the hit, cut cpsts where they can,and hope that they can make it up in terms of lower quality materials, cutting labour expenditure elsewhere? It's the high street that inflicts pain in this niche - paying for celeb-driven advertising campaigns, shop space and added cost of being a massive corporate concern.

 

[KILO NOVEMBER]

There was a time when "made in China" was synonymous with poor quality ...

I am now in my seventh decade. I clearly remember that when I was a boy, if you wanted to dis another kid's toy, you would say, "Yeah, it's probably made in Japan!"

A lot has changed since then, or has it?

 

[AdeeC]

What I can't get my head around is that all these luxury brands are far more expensive in China despite many being made over there. Expect to pay around a 20% premium more than in Australia or up to double what it costs in the US for many big name things made in China. Even discounted items are usually more expensive than new. My wife got her iPhone stolen a couple of days before our last trip. Looked for a new one over there and all were up to to 30% more expensive than home. The Chinese consumer is being screwed mercilessly. Partly their fault as the nouveau rich like to buy the most expensive of anything irrespective of true value or quality.

 

[tropicalbob]

What I can't get my head around is that all these luxury brands are far more expensive in China despite many being made over there. Expect to pay around a 20% premium more than in Australia or up to double what it costs in the US for many big name things made in China. Even discounted items are usually more expensive than new. My wife got her iPhone stolen a couple of days before our last trip. Looked for a new one over there and all were up to to 30% more expensive than home. The Chinese consumer is being screwed mercilessly. Partly their fault as the nouveau rich like to buy the most expensive of anything irrespective of true value or quality.

That's really interesting and the first I've heard of the practice. As for the atrocious taste of the nouveau riche, I can't believe anywhere could top Miami. Stop on by sometime and I'll take you on a tour of former dictators' mansions. Beyond belief.

 

[ButteMT61]

I look at it this way. Could a "white" guy in NY make good Native American jewelry? Could a Chinese guy make a great A-2 in Beijing? Sure. But for me - me - I prefer to get something that correlates to the culture and made by those people if at all possible.
It's a fine-line, I realize that. And maybe me being older, I have prejudices about such things. I grew up hearing my grandpa say "jap-crap" more than Amen. It's just a goal here in our house - to buy as much as we can items made by people representing the culture of the originals. So when it's time to build that log-house in Montana, it's going to be made by Montanans (we have family that does it).

 

[zhz]

What I can't get my head around is that all these luxury brands are far more expensive in China despite many being made over there. Expect to pay around a 20% premium more than in Australia or up to double what it costs in the US for many big name things made in China. Even discounted items are usually more expensive than new. My wife got her iPhone stolen a couple of days before our last trip. Looked for a new one over there and all were up to to 30% more expensive than home. The Chinese consumer is being screwed mercilessly. Partly their fault as the nouveau rich like to buy the most expensive of anything irrespective of true value or quality.

The reason those luxury brands are far more expensive in China is tax, thats why most Chinese purchasing those brands from HK or overseas. As for iPhone, the official Chinese retail price is actually cheaper than UK. I don't know how Apple pricing their products, but HK is the cheapest place to get them.

 

[zhz]

I look at it this way. Could a "white" guy in NY make good Native American jewelry? Could a Chinese guy make a great A-2 in Beijing? Sure. But for me - me - I prefer to get something that correlates to the culture and made by those people if at all possible.
It's a fine-line, I realize that. And maybe me being older, I have prejudices about such things. I grew up hearing my grandpa say "jap-crap" more than Amen. It's just a goal here in our house - to buy as much as we can items made by people representing the culture of the originals. So when it's time to build that log-house in Montana, it's going to be made by Montanans (we have family that does it).

Just wondering, what is your view about those Japanese brands? Say, RM, BUZZ, The Few etc?

 

[ButteMT61]

Just wondering, what is your view about those Japanese brands? Say, RM, BUZZ, The Few etc?

Nice stuff for sure. I hate them in part due to the lack of sizes larger than around a US 44, give or take. It also seems overpriced to me, but it's all relative as we know here...

I guess I'm happy that these Japanese brands are for smaller guys. I might find myself liking something and wanting more. Although I did have my son try on a Himel at Self Sedge Hollywood and it was a really less than stellar jacket. But pics I've seen here tell me it was likely just the style or the one we saw.

I looked at all the gear there by the likes of Iron Heart, and while it's nice, it just would never happen that I would pay those prices for jeans and shirts.

I like the Japanese - they really seem to get the Work Wear look, etc. And I think they do it justice, if not by price and sizing.

 

[Sir Jacket]

RRL has its yearly sale on, so I went and raided the London store yesterday. As usual, I came away with some lovely shirts at half-price (costing what they really should, not the inflated usual price) and tried on a few of the leathers. They do feel solidly made but what's striking is what felt like their poor cut compared with Aeros, Eastmans, GWs et al – yet at two or three times the price. Plus they have the dodgy "worn-in" look, which is anathema to anyone who likes to wear in his leathers himself.

Didn't spot the A-1 copycat so if anyone has a pic, do post.

 

[ButteMT61]

RRL do fashion copies justice - sans pricing, but sales are the only way to go.
Hardly ever ever buy anything for full price or even close these days, with the exception of the makers here. I wouldn't even try to barter as I think the work they do is stellar and deserving of what they ask.

 

[Superfluous]

RRL . . . sales are the only way to go. Hardly ever ever buy anything for full price

Exactly. RRL's long standing policy of frequent sales has creating a fan base that are largely unwilling to pay retail and, instead, wait for sales. RRL's rapidly escalating retail prices have fueled this approach, as the gap between retailing pricing and perceived value increases. I've heard that RRL will be implementing new measures to combat this approach, including decreased volume/availability and fewer sales.

 

[ButteMT61]

I won't lie, I've seen some really killer jackets on guys out here that are no doubt, made in China, and assembly-line pieces that cost a fortune (that I would never buy). Even though I'm the only one that cares in the room, I still know.
But for non-leather stuff on a 70% off sale, count me in.

 

[navetsea]

since I live in a 3rd world country, I buy mine from local jacket makers at my hometown here, nothing like sweatshop really, I pay maybe 1/3 or 1/4 of what you guys pay to the usual suspects, not because here they sell it very cheap or using cheap material or scrap leather, or the employees are being treated like slaves or anything in negative ways, but just because we talk and live with our currency, which is weak compared to $, that small number is considered expensive and proper here.
And also they work with local hides from local tanneries, so no US dollar involved in the whole process.

 

[Smithy]

The one big thing that RRL should be congratulated for is their reinvigoration of classic Golden Era cuts and patterns. Not everything mind but they've done more for championing 20s, 30s, 40s clothing more than any other big name maker down the years in modern times.

 

[CBI]

The short version for me is that I think about this a lot and have many brands/stores on my "do not buy from" list. I end up buying as little as I can get by with and buy used often. Better for the planet but maybe not for capitalism. I usually break down at one point during the course of a year and buy something from the Gap or Eddie Bauer but that's about as low as I go.....so I like to think.

 

[eugenesque]

I personally do agree that buying an item from a luxury brand makes little sense especially when one is unsure of the source of production and when the durability of the said item may be similar if not lousier than that of say, Aero.

However, a great majority of people base their purchases on what they perceive would bring them a sense of "class" or "recognition". Their thought processes are governed by advertisements in the mainstream media as well as established brand names. Ralph Lauren, Burberry etc are the names which are known to the nouveau riche (no offence to people who made it rich or who are rich) in countries such as China, India or those in the Middle East. Such people are likely to go for these brands because they give them the fastest and most bang (in terms of class and recognition) for their buck.

 

[GraceNote13]

Thanks everyone for such a great conversation. I was thinking that buying products from brands that sell through department stores, is that a large portion of the sell price of the jacket has little to due with it's manufacturing or RRL profit. Department store markups according to the Wall Street Journal average 55-62% on designer fashions.

My other thought as someone previously mentioned is that dealing direct with the person making your custom jacket or garment is extremely fulfilling. Nothing beats the experience of working with great people that share the same passion.

 

[eugenesque]

Thanks everyone for such a great conversation. I was thinking that buying products from brands that sell through department stores, is that a large portion of the sell price of the jacket has little to due with it's manufacturing or RRL profit. Department store markups according to the Wall Street Journal average 55-62% on designer fashions.

My other thought as someone previously mentioned is that dealing direct with the person making your custom jacket or garment is extremely fulfilling. Nothing beats the experience of working with great people that share the same passion.

Agreed. A personal touch is always more desirable.