Pocketwatches

[jamespowers]

And in reply to James, yes that probably accounts for it. When I first got into pocketwatches, I started looking for huntercases, but I just couldn't find one that I liked. So I stuck with open-face watches.

You need to get the demand up so the market will fulfill the need.

 

[Don Dahlberg]

I love the Elgin! I've always wanted a vintage or antique huntercase watch with the hinge at 6 o'clock instead of 9. But they're almost impossible to find.

An open face movement winds at 12 o'clock and a hunter movement winds at 3 o'clock.

Sometimes you will find a hunter movement in an open face case. We call these sidewinders. Most of these were created when a hunter case wore out and the movement was moved to a less expensive open face case. There were also special dials made for this combination. With these dials the hunter movement in an open face case appears to wind at 12 o'clock, but the seconds chapter is at 9 o'clock instead of 6 o'clock.

A hunter case with a movement winding at 12 o'clock is simply an open face movement in a hunter case. You do not see them very often, but all it involves is removing one movement and putting in another. All 16 size movements fit in all 16 size cases held in by two case screws. They are usually created when someone has a good movement in a bad case and a bad movement in a good case. So they switch them to create one good watch to sell. Serious collectors want everything original and "right", but you like what you like.

Don

 

[Shangas]

Thanks for explanation, Don. I suspected that was the case, but still, I wondered.

 

[Stearmen]

I am totally confused! What is an inclosed watch like mine with the winder at 12 o'clock and the hinge at 6? It is all organelle, since it has been in the family since new, and not changed.

 

[Don Dahlberg]

I am totally confused! What is an inclosed watch like mine with the winder at 12 o'clock and the hinge at 6? It is all organelle, since it has been in the family since new, and not changed.

Somebody put an open face movement into a hunter case. Perhaps it was sold that way. Perhaps it was done when the original case was damaged and the case was replaced. We can spot a case swop by looking for case screw marks on the case left by a previous movement. If the case was new, then there would be no such marks. Another indication of a case swap is when the movement and the case are from different eras.

The reason that your configuration is not normal is that you normally hold a hunter watch with your thumb on the stem to the right and the hinge and your other fingers to the left. You press the stem and the front cover opens and is cushioned by your fingers so as not to fatigue the hinge. In this configuration 12 o'clock is up. Otherwise you have to twist your wrist in strange position to read the watch.

By the way when you close the cover, you should press in the stem, close the cover, and release the stem. Do not just close the cover with a "click", because this wears the lip that holds the lid closed.

Don

 

[Stearmen]

Thanks

Now that I look at the back of the movement, some one has had it apart, plus the serial numbers don't match. Suprisingly, I am not disappointed, this just makes it a greater conversation peace! Thanks for the help Don!

 

[Shangas]

It is a beautiful and stylish watch of good quality. Look after it and it'll keep you on time.

But yes, do listen to Don. Don't 'snap' the cover shut. That wears out the case and the clasp and causes damage in the long-term. Always press down the crown, close the lid and then release the catch to keep it shut.

 

[Stearmen]

But yes, do listen to Don. Don't 'snap' the cover shut. That wears out the case and the clasp and causes damage in the long-term. Always press down the crown, close the lid and then release the catch to keep it shut.

Yes, my Dad taught me that when I was very young, been doing it ever since! Thats why none of my watches pop open on there own.

 

[Don Dahlberg]

This is indeed a high quality watch. The movement is railroad grade. They would not have allowed this movement in this case though, because one might get confused where 12 o'clock was when reading the watch in dim light. To learn about railroad grade watches see this great site by one the most expert people on such watches. http://ph.nawcc.org/Railroad/Railroad.htm

Some of the important features include that it is an 18 size movement with 21 jewels. Early railroad grade watches had to be 18 size and at least 17 jewels. Later this was changed to 16 size and at least 19 jewels, but older watches in service were grandfathered. Your watch has a micrometer regulator. Most watches have a regulator arrow or arm that you adjust the rate with. These are hard to move small amounts with a pusher. This has a patent or micrometer regulator. You can adjust the rate a couple of seconds per day by rotating that small nut on the regulator thread. It looks like the jewel settings are gold rather than brass. That is just for looks, but it shows a high level watch. The watch is adjusted for isochronism, meaning it keeps about the same time when the mainspring is wound up tight and when it has run down after 24 hours. It is adjusted to keep about the same rate when hot and cold with a temperature compensated balance. Notice the balance wheel is brass on the outside and steel on the inside of the lamination. When the hairspring gets warm, the watch slows down, but at the same time the arms of the balance bend inward to speed up the watch again. So they adjust the position of the weights (screws) on the balance so that the two effects cancel at high and low temperature. Finally, the balance is "poised" or balance like you balance a tire using these screws and the hairspring is shaped to swell and shrink concentric with the center of the balance. This way the balance keeps about the same rate over at least five positions, dial up, dial down, pendant up, right and left. There are some other special features inside such as a steel escape wheel. All these features and the labor to adjust them greatly added to the cost of a railroad grade movement. Don't expect it to keep railroad grade time (30 seconds per week). It is like a race car, it has to be tuned (readjusted) from time to time. It beats 18,000 times an hour and if it is off one full beat in an hour, that is 34 seconds per week. It has about 150 parts. This was all done when cars were motorized carriages.

Yes, this watch has been recased. This is not because the serial numbers do not match. They do not match on American watches even when they were factory cased. The serial number on the case is the case maker's serial number. Regardless, very few watches were factory cased at this time. You purchased the case and movement at the retail level and the jeweler joined them. The way I know it has been recased is I see the old case screw marks. There is one on the edge of the case above the "ew" of "21 jewels". I see other case screw marks as well. It looks like more than two watches have lived in this case, since each movement has only two case screws.

Don

 

[Stearmen]

Railroad Watch

Thanks for all the information! I new even before this, that this was not your average knock about watch. I of course do take care of my watches, it is actually farley accurate, only loosing a minute or so a week when I use it that long. Yes, I do no how lucky I am to receive this watch for free!

 

[tealseal]

Hello all,

I am new to the lounge and only recently found this thread. I hope what I post here is not redundant, and I apologize if I am repeating others. I have two pocket watches: My first, and daily wearer, is a new Victorinox. I love it because it is stainless steel and water resistant to 150 m, which means I can take it everywhere and not worry about gumming up the innards. It came with a belt-loop chain. The second one is a 17-jewel Hamilton that, according to research came from 1912. Still looking for chain so I can wear it with a blazer or 2 piece suit.
My question is this: My Hamilton is a lever-set watch. How does one set such a watch? Does it have to be dead to set? The problem I'm encountering is that the seconds keep ticking even while the lever is pulled so it seems impossible to sync...am I missing something simple? Am I making sense?
Regards,
tealseal

 

[Shangas]

You're thinking of watches with a hacking movement. You pull up the crown or you press the pin or...in your case...pull up the lever...and watch stops DEAD.

Most watches don't have this feature. So there's nothing wrong with yours. It just keeps going. There's nothing you can do about that.

 

[tealseal]

You're thinking of watches with a hacking movement. You pull up the crown or you press the pin or...in your case...pull up the lever...and watch stops DEAD.

Most watches don't have this feature. So there's nothing wrong with yours. It just keeps going. There's nothing you can do about that.

Thanks for the explanation. I had never heard of non-hacking vs. hacking movements before, but I'm still new to the world of quality timepieces.

 

[Don Dahlberg]

A 17 jewel, lever set watch from 1912 should not have a hack feature. The hack feature usually appeared on watches for use in navigation. We can verify the date and grade of your watch if we have the serial number off the back of the movement (not the case).

You set a lever set watch by unscrewing or opening the front bezel (the ring around the front crystal) and pulling out the lever at about 2 o'clock. Then you can set the time with the stem crown and push the lever back in.

See http://www.pocketwatchrepair.com/how-to/lever-set.php and http://mb.nawcc.org/showwiki.php?title=Setting+Watch+Hands

The only way to set a watch without a hack feature to the exact second is to set the watch ahead of the time and stop the balance with a small, soft brush or cat wisker When the time catches up with the watch setting, release the balance. Unless the watch had been overhauled and adjusted, it will not keep great time by today's standards, so we usually just set them by setting the minute hand as close as we can. This means you will be within 30 seconds of the real time.

Don

 

[fluteplayer07]

Anyone had experience with Abell Watch Repair?

 

[Don Dahlberg]

I do not know the folks at Abell Watch Repair. They do say all the right things on their site. They do not give where they were trained, but do say that they are certified. I would ask who certified them. If they say AWCI (American Watch and Clock Institute) or they are WOSTEP trained, then at least they have the right training.

Don

 

[Highlander]

Ok, here a few photos of my Hampden Wm McKinley hunter cased watch that I just acquired. S/N 1585321, from what I can read on it, it was made about 1901. 17 Jewel , Adjusted, 25 year warranted case. A 25 year Deuber (Anchor Markings) on the case.

. The innerworkings

 

[Shangas]

That's a very pretty watch, of good quality, Highlander.

Hunter-case watches never had the same appeal to me, but they do have a way of growing on you.

Maybe...one day...I'll buy one.

EDIT - Highlander - Perhaps you could post photos of the front, and back of the watch-case? Hunter-cases always have such pretty patterns on them.

 

[jamespowers]

Ok, here a few photos of my Hampden Wm McKinley hunter cased watch that I just acquired. S/N 1585321, from what I can read on it, it was made about 1901. 17 Jewel , Adjusted, 25 year warranted case. A 25 year Deuber (Anchor Markings) on the case.

. The innerworkings

A very nice watch. They just get more expensive as time passes as well. They are wonderful time keepers and look good to boot.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

Waltham size 18, needs a new crown

Turns out I'm just a dummy and didn't know how to use the macro function on my camera (it's still a bit junky as it eats batteries like popcorn) so watch this space for updated photos in the near future. Here is my 15 jewel size 18 Waltham open face. As you can see, it is in need of repair as the winding crown is missing (gone before I received the watch) I plan to have this fixed sometime after our adoption is finalized.

The case is gold filled, as is the chain that goes with it:

I modified it slightly into an albert style and added the 24kt gold chinese coin medallion as a fob.